Buyer Beware

I thought I'd go and see what the used car scene was for used diesel Foresters. I found one on the north coast- even had a bull bar. Price was quite low, which worried me. I rang anyway and asked for the cars history. There is a gap of 40,000kms without a service. That, and that the car came from Bundaberg in Queensland (floods were a worry) ruled that car out. Also a very good reason to make sure you get your log booked checked, and check when buying.

you didn't happen to get a photo of the bull bar did you? off topic i know but i am interested to see what they look like for the current shape.

Can i just add that when we were looking aat getting the diesel we looked at the used car scene but with all the dpf problems of the earlier foresters. we decided to go with a new one. also worth noting there were several revisions made to the my12 (november 2011 on) including a new turbo charger that fixed some of the low end torque issues.

look on carsales.com.au

Gidday Rally

Rally said:

I thought I'd go and see what the used car scene was for used diesel Foresters.

Click to expand...

That fuel economy is very attractive, isn't it ...

However, I have been wondering for some time about the strength and longevity of "consumer" diesel engines.

Now I know they're not in the league of a GM 3 cylinder developing 90 drawbar horsepower at almost zero rpms, but I have heard some horror stories about repairs and long term service costs.
Two of the horror stories involved the owners putting ULP into their fuel tanks; so plain old-fashioned user error. Still a $6,000 to $8,000 user error though (both Nissan Patrols, IIRC).

Putting diesel into an ULP vehicle will "only" cost one about a grand to rectify ... Remove and refit injectors; ultrasonic clean to remove the wax residue; flush all fuel lines and tank and return lines; replace filter/s - UGH.

The $1,000 was to do my Impreza about 12~13 years ago, after using ULP fuel that had been decanted from the tanker using a pipe that had previously been used to decant diesel. My injectors had to be sent to Colac to be cleaned (from Apollo Bay).

Diesel fuel contains waxes that solidify in the injectors of a petrol engine when it gets cold (overnight ... ). Works fine until that occurs ...

Stranded some 300+ vehicles all across Western Victoria.
I was the person who diagnosed the cause ... RACV contacted the fuel company.
The fuel company paid for the servicing of all effected vehicles; and also footed the bill for me being stranded for 3 working days, and SWMBO's ticket back to Melbourne.

A nightmare for them (and very costly error ... ) and all those effected by it, but they paid up graciously and had all vehicles repaired at their cost. Cannot ask for more than that.
poop happens!!

They have been using these types of engines in Europe for a long time. When I was in Europe, all I heard was the clatter of diesel engines, so one can only assume they cannot be too bad. Just need to get in the habit of putting diesel in the tank and not petrol! And keeping it serviced

I think that Longevity would be a major concern Ratbag if you didn't maintain the vehicle and didn't drive it in the way it should be driven (particularly if it has a DPF) Having had a TDI for the past month now I'm a huge fan. Immediate torque, lower fuel consumption - all round it's brilliant. Fuel economy is important, but for me that major advantage is the drivability. Getting back into my Forester can get annoying as it feels sluggish - the surge of riding the torque wave is brilliant. That being said, I would be hesitant in signing for a used Subaru diesel - too many issues in the first run, and as always, I'd wait for the update (the MY12).

Putting ULP in a diesel is a concern if a) you don't pay attention and b) you can't read.

My grandfather runs 2 diesels now, one an inline 6 and the other a normal 4 cyl diesel. Both are upwards of 60,000kms and seem to be getting better with age. I drove a VW Golf with 102,000 on the clock (1.9TDI with DSG) on the weekend and apart from the gruffness on start up (-2 start up in Canberra) it felt good. My mate (the owner) is impressed with it, and has put 20,000 on the clock since he bought it, and has no problems apart from a known issue with the MKV Golf (his mum's 2.0 TDI DSG had the exact same issue)

I'd be quite happy to say that longevity is not an issue. Unless you chip the motor well above normal standards, which, like in a petrol motor, can cause issues.

As Rally said, there are diesels everywhere in Europe, and having driven a 6MT Renault Laguna with a 1.5 Diesel, that shamed the 2.5 Forester, I'm a convert.

I drove a diesel Focus in England and was most impressed. Not just the engine- the whole car. Economy was amazing. For everyday transport I'm convinced about the modern turbo diesel. But a turbo petrol- definitely convinced about them. Still, there is still development left in the petrol engine to improve fuel economy, so the scene might change again in the next 10 years back towards petrol.

I'm not sure why people go on about the servicing costs diesel vs petrol. subaru now do fixed price servicing( don't know how long they've done it for this is our first subaru). anyway the servicing cost sheet we got when we bought the car shows the diesel is on average about $20 cheaper per service and about $100 cheaper in the major services(assuming cause theres no spark plugs to replace in the diesel). When you factor in the diesel service period are 12500kms vs the petrols 15000kms we worked it out that the diesel is still slightly in front over a 100000km period. now the fixed price servicing only goes untill 175000kms so is there some suprise after this number?

I would not wait till 12,500km's for the diesel and I would definitely not wait 15,000kms for the petrol either.

Gidday All

Thanks for the info.

IRL, many people are quick to tell you the horror stories (whether about cars, or open heart surgery - ask me about the latter, if you like. My Cardiologist calls it "brutal" ... ).

It has always seemed to me that it would be a great idea to resurrect the Saab micro-fine steam boiler external combustion steam engine they designed and built in the late 1960s.
Talk about torque! Steam engines don't need anything other than forward, neutral and reverse, and develop their maximum torque at zero revs ...

Failing this, diesels have the potential to be better than petrol engines in every way; just neglected by almost all manufacturers until relatively recently. Mercedes have held the fort single-handed really. They have made diesel engined versions of their cars since before I was born ...

The torque of the 2.0L Subaru diesels demonstrates this advantage, big time. About 50% more than the 2.5L N/A donk, with much the same torque curve!

My enquiry is not in any way meant to be other than an interest in what the ramifications are for "consumer" diesels. The Mercedes donk could never be accused of being other than an industrial diesel in a car, at least the ones that I have a passing familiarity with ...

I don't know what your sheet looks like, but we were given a sheet when we purchased mums 09 that outlined all the service costs. Except that so far, the projected costs have been inaccurate. Unles you worked out a deal on fixed price servicing, I doubt that the sheet is for fixed price. It'll be the usual print off of estimated service prices.

Excuse my typing - on iPad.

My Forrie get's it 5,000km service this weekend. Oil was on special at $25, plus add another $35 for filters (air & oil), $20 for UEC and additive and rotate the tyres. $80 all up.

the biggest service cost difference between diesel and petrol is the regular fuel filter changes in the diesels.
we would have brought a diesel rather then a latest forester but i calculated the initial purchasing price not worth it as the fuel saving were not that great.
i also like the point you made rally about the development of petrol engines i also agree that there is plenty of life left in the development of them.
i service our foresters every 10,000ks. 5,000ks is to frequent with the amount of driving we do. although i do my brumby 5,000ks due to thats abouts every 12months hahaha

Moved OT posts from this thread to OT forum - RB

Gidday All

I have moved all the very OT posts from this thread to here, my own contributions included.

We had all contributed to taking Rally's thread WAY OT ... :iconwink: