Vehicle Dynamics Control, On or Off?

i found this video might help with the topic
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mryGnENTsoI"]Live demonstration of Subaru Forester and Outback's 4x4 symmetrical all wheel drive system - YouTube[/ame]
 
Gidday Wombat

If it helps you find out, when i start my car i have a VDC light, a VDC off light and a car doing a skid mark symbol light on my dash for a few seconds then they turn off indicating the system is functioning.

Yeah, thanks for that.

I did have a look for all that stuff after reading about it in the OM. Mine has none of those dash lights, nor does it have the ON/OFF switch.

So even though the fuse is labelled "VDC", I suspect that the person who said it was for the EBD system was quite correct ...

I'm not even sure what the difference is between the two anyway :lol:.
 
VDC and EBD are completely different systems. VDC splits power between the wheels whereas EBD splits braking between the wheels.

If your car has a fuse labelled VDC, chances are its just been left there because the Foresters made for the Japanese market came equipped with it, and we lost out here in Aus.
 
Great vid Thunder. I love watching them climb that muddy bank. Im guessing thats with road tyres too

VDC and EBD are completely different systems. VDC splits power between the wheels whereas EBD splits braking between the wheels.

Great description Shiv :iconwink:

If your car has a fuse labelled VDC, chances are its just been left there because the Foresters made for the Japanese market came equipped with it, and we lost out here in Aus.

:(:shrug:
 
Gidday Shiv

VDC and EBD are completely different systems. VDC splits power between the wheels whereas EBD splits braking between the wheels.

If your car has a fuse labelled VDC, chances are its just been left there because the Foresters made for the Japanese market came equipped with it, and we lost out here in Aus.

Thanks for that succinct description mate :).
 
This has made me ponder, i always disconnect my VDC when driving on the beach because ive heard the system makes the car a pig in the sand and will get you bogged...
But would it? Wouldn't the VDC help overcome wheels that are stuck and help you get out of a bog easier?
Or am i thinking silly:raz:

Dunno if you're thinking silly, necessarily - we've got an '07 Outback Wagon (H6, 5EAT) in the family with both VTD and VDC, and I hate VDC in the dirt.

There's one section of forest trail where VDC turns the car into a one-wheel-drive wonder: it's an uphill, slightly off-camber stretch of firm, washboardy dirt with gravel on top of it. That particular combination brings the OBW to nearly a dead halt as the computer goes insane trying to figure out what the wheel sensors are telling it and where to send power as a result. Note that this is somewhere I used to take my Brat/Brumby through in FWD with no issues, so it's not like this is seriously difficult terrain. The only way to make the OBW behave is to switch traction control off, which disables VDC - once the car is in 'dumb and dangerous' mode, it's perfectly controllable.

One other situation I've seen it behave strangely in is fresh snowfall (approximately 4"-5") on top of ice-free pavement. Parked it in the middle of an empty parking lot (judging from the lack of tyre tracks, I was the first one in there after the snow started) and tried to take off from rest, gently. The car moved at about a 30-degree angle to straight ahead in what I can only describe as a crab-like motion as power was redirected. Repeated this experiment in a couple of other similar locations and got very similar results. Turned the traction control off and everything was A-OK.

My opinion is that VDC works well in a narrow set of circumstances (wet or dry pavement, basically), but get outside of those specific circumstances and its shortcomings very quickly become apparent. Can't speak as to how it is on sand as I've never taken that car on the beach, but if I were going to, the traction control button would be the first one I'd press after finding the gate that lets you get down to the water ;)

VDC and EBD are completely different systems. VDC splits power between the wheels whereas EBD splits braking between the wheels.

Not quite, unless something's different for the Australian market. VDC stands for 'Vehicle Dynamics Control', where various pitch, yaw, speed, brake, etc. sensors are read and braking, etc. adjusted to keep the vehicle upright. It's essentially another name for stability control. VTD is Variable Torque Distribution, which is one of the methods by which power is transferred between the front and rear axles in automatic-equipped Subarus. VDC and VTD do work in concert on vehicles equipped with both, however. You were bang on with EBD, though ;)
 
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That video was awesome really explained alot, i wish my car had a button to disable the VDC, the button came on the facelift outback a year or two after my one, i have to stick a fuse in the VDC OFF fuse hole in the engine before i go on the beach.. Wonder how hard it would be to wire a switch into it?
 

There's one section of forest trail where VDC turns the car into a one-wheel-drive wonder: it's an uphill, slightly off-camber stretch of firm, washboardy dirt with gravel on top of it. That particular combination brings the OBW to nearly a dead halt as the computer goes insane trying to figure out what the wheel sensors are telling it and where to send power as a result. Note that this is somewhere I used to take my Brat/Brumby through in FWD with no issues, so it's not like this is seriously difficult terrain. The only way to make the OBW behave is to switch traction control off, which disables VDC - once the car is in 'dumb and dangerous' mode, it's perfectly controllable.

Hey casm.

Towards the end of the vid (min 3:44) it tells you to switch off the traction control when going offroad... climbing muddy banks (min 4:22) or any thing else like you described. It says it doesnt disable the VDC, just changes its mode so the engine doesnt limit power but still uses the brakes to limit wheel spin.

One other situation I've seen it behave strangely in is fresh snowfall (approximately 4"-5") on top of ice-free pavement. Parked it in the middle of an empty parking lot (judging from the lack of tyre tracks, I was the first one in there after the snow started) and tried to take off from rest, gently. The car moved at about a 30-degree angle to straight ahead in what I can only describe as a crab-like motion as power was redirected. Repeated this experiment in a couple of other similar locations and got very similar results. Turned the traction control off and everything was A-OK.
Same as above

That video was awesome really explained alot, i wish my car had a button to disable the VDC, the button came on the facelift outback a year or two after my one, i have to stick a fuse in the VDC OFF fuse hole in the engine before i go on the beach.. Wonder how hard it would be to wire a switch into it?

Im sure you have a traction control switch though...Subaru have designed it to be turned off for this very purpose.

This system sounds awesome & if you see the muddy bank it climbs right at the end, I think it does an outstanding job, esp as its prob on road tyres! :monkeydance:
 
That was a good vid, I wish they would put a 5 speed manual one on in comparison and an older forester or outback to compare the differences.

I wonder how Venom's lib would go with its LSD's??
 
i would of liked to see a manual also but like most manufactures the auto is the most popular. the video also shows that CVT arent to shabby offroad, but i think more experience with them offorad is needed.
i think venoms wouldnt have any trouble, it appears the the VDC acts like a electronic LSD
 
Speaking of CVT's offroad....


I don't know if this video is genuine (ie; was the traction control off like he says it was)

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRL0J8G_Y6A"]Subaru Outback stuck in snow, CVT kills engine to protect Transmission from damage - YouTube[/ame]
 
Nah it doesn't, Shiv can confirm this the facelift model scores the button mine doesnt have it:(

Oh bugger! :(:shake:

That was a good vid, I wish they would put a 5 speed manual one on in comparison and an older forester or outback to compare the differences.

Yeah I was thinking that too lol

I wonder how Venom's lib would go with its LSD's??
Haha it would cruise up it. Seriously easy! :monkeydance:

He may not even have to engage his centre lock, but probably would anyway cos he likes the switches hahaha :raspberry:


There are other vids of CVTs struggling...one was up a concrete driveway!
I'm not sure if I'd be too keen on a CVT just yet
 
Towards the end of the vid (min 3:44) it tells you to switch off the traction control when going offroad... climbing muddy banks (min 4:22) or any thing else like you described. It says it doesnt disable the VDC, just changes its mode so the engine doesnt limit power but still uses the brakes to limit wheel spin.

To be honest, I'm not certain that his description is correct - at least for my model year. You'll have to jump through a few hoops to get to where I'm taking all of this from, but: have a look at this link. Search for a 2007 Outback, 3.0R L.L. Bean (not sedan). Pull up the 'Instruments and Controls' manual, page 3-30.

There's talk about the VDC disable light coming on in the event of VDC failures, but if you stick with it through to page 3-31, it states that the light also comes on when the VDC off switch is also pressed. From the language involved, It really does sound as if the traction control switch is actually a VDC disable (though I'm not sure about EBD), but that could be year- and model-dependent.

I really wish Subaru had installed a 'dumb and dangerous' switch that locked the front:rear torque split 50:50, turned off VDC, ABS, and EBD, and let the transmission hold a gear into redline. Downhill descents in the dirt can be scary in that thing with the relatively high final drive (3.27:1 IIRC) and no low range.
 
I really wish Subaru had installed a 'dumb and dangerous' switch that locked the front:rear torque split 50:50, turned off VDC, ABS, and EBD, and let the transmission hold a gear into redline. Downhill descents in the dirt can be scary in that thing with the relatively high final drive (3.27:1 IIRC) and no low range.

+1 except for the VDC.

Lock the centre at 50/50, turn off ABS, EBD, ESC & traction control, but leave the VDC so power is directed through the wheel with the most grip, not the least. :lildevil:
 
+1 except for the VDC.

Lock the centre at 50/50, turn off ABS, EBD, ESC & traction control, but leave the VDC so power is directed through the wheel with the most grip, not the least. :lildevil:

Nah... Turn off the VDC and let the Aussie or Detroit locker in the R160 do its work :biggrin:
 
Hey casm.

Towards the end of the vid (min 3:44) it tells you to switch off the traction control when going offroad... climbing muddy banks (min 4:22) or any thing else like you described. It says it doesnt disable the VDC, just changes its mode so the engine doesnt limit power but still uses the brakes to limit wheel spin

this is what i thought no traction control but still has vbd
 
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