OFFROADSUBARUS.COM

Go Back   OFFROADSUBARUS.COM > Technical Forums > Mods, Insurance, Local Compliance & you

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 29th July 2019, 12:47 AM
Beachworm Beachworm is offline
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Brisbane Australia
Year: 2010
Model: Forester X Luxury, sump guard, bigger AT tyres and 50mm Subieliftoz lift, breather extensions
Transmission: Auto
Posts: 501
Beachworm is on a distinguished road
Default Bit of a problem with lift compliance

I've come across a bit of a problem that I would appreciate some advice on.

I have a 50mm lift kit installed in my SH Forester. I'm one of those strange people that likes to keep modifications strictly legal and I live in QLD where it seems to be harder than anywhere else to do that.

I have been doing a lot of research, communicating with Transport and Main Roads and consulting with 2 engineers they recommended and I have found out the following:

1. The Code of Practice for modifying light vehicles in regard to lifts other than using springs/struts/shocks does not cover unibody vehicles with ESC. This means that: a) If I want to lift my Forester to the 75mm limit permitted under the code I have to use springs/shocks/struts in combination with a 50mm increase in tyre diameter.
b) If I want to use strut-top spacers such as I already have installed I have to make application to TMR for their specific approval to go to 50mm and then I am not permitted to increase the tyre size.

OR use the services of an engineer to get approval for a high lift.

I am planning on applying for approval to TMR for the strut-top lift in the first instance and if that doesn't pan out I'll try a spring lift. I am aware that most comments on this site say a spring lift is not a good option.

What is your advice?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 29th July 2019, 02:29 AM
Red XS's Avatar
Red XS Red XS is offline
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Perth, West Aus
Year: 2006
Model: SG Forester XS
Transmission: 1.447 Low SG Manual
Posts: 851
Red XS is on a distinguished road
Default

The laws weren't really written for our style of vehicle, which probably contributes to so many of us choosing to take the risk. Lots of grey areas that you can choose to interpret how you like.

Issue with spring lift is there aren't any of the shelf lifted shocks to match so the travels won't match. Not a good option even if laws say otherwise.

Interesting to know how the cost of engineering compares to the cost of custom shocks. But in saying that most custom shocks probably break a dozen other laws.


Recommendation is to move to WA where there aren't the checks
__________________
Red Manual MY06 Forester 2.5XS
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 29th July 2019, 04:25 AM
Beachworm Beachworm is offline
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Brisbane Australia
Year: 2010
Model: Forester X Luxury, sump guard, bigger AT tyres and 50mm Subieliftoz lift, breather extensions
Transmission: Auto
Posts: 501
Beachworm is on a distinguished road
Default

There are lots of other vehicles in the same boat. Mitsubishi Pajero, Landrover Discovery, Nissan X Trail and other I don't know about. The difference is that aftermarket options are available for them to use springs and dampers. I was wondering if anyone has tried cutting and shutting struts to increase length or cutting and putting a bigger diameter tube over the whole lot. I've seen video of them being cut to take inserts. Perhaps there are some that are longer than standard.


We don't have regular checks in QLD either, it's just my preference to have it legal.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 29th July 2019, 04:28 AM
Beachworm Beachworm is offline
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Brisbane Australia
Year: 2010
Model: Forester X Luxury, sump guard, bigger AT tyres and 50mm Subieliftoz lift, breather extensions
Transmission: Auto
Posts: 501
Beachworm is on a distinguished road
Default

It also came to mind that there might be other struts from other models or other makes that will fit that are longer than the SH. This was one suggestion from the engineer.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 29th July 2019, 07:02 AM
Red XS's Avatar
Red XS Red XS is offline
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Perth, West Aus
Year: 2006
Model: SG Forester XS
Transmission: 1.447 Low SG Manual
Posts: 851
Red XS is on a distinguished road
Default

In WA "body blocks or lift kits" are allowed as per VSB 14 section 4.11. Nothing macpherson strut specific.

You also need to keep at least 2/3 of the original rebound travel. (In the same section) Which prevents people putting too tall a spring in a shock.
I prefer our laws...



But for you, the strut would have to have been designed for your vehicle otherwise you will need engineering anyway. Any modifications would certainly need engineering. If you some how find a strut that just happens to bolt in, they could still raise questions as to whether it's load ratings meet your cars standards. Getting a custom made coilover like my Hotbits is at least designed for the car. You'd have to make sure they can't be adjusted outside allowable height range and there will be other state specific laws like that to be aware off too.



Sounds like you are going to need engineering anyway, so you might as well find the setup that you want first.
__________________
Red Manual MY06 Forester 2.5XS
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 29th July 2019, 07:08 PM
NachaLuva's Avatar
NachaLuva NachaLuva is offline
Senior Member / Product Developer
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SE Melbourne
Posts: 5,677
NachaLuva is on a distinguished road
Default

Uggghhhh!!!

My advice is to grab those 2 engineers & clunk their heads together like a couple of coconuts!

Seriously, they're engineers. They're meant to keep up to date with current laws. They must have been hiding under a big rock to have missed all the crap going on in Qld over the last 6-12 months

Quote:
1. The Code of Practice for modifying light vehicles in regard to lifts other than using springs/struts/shocks does not cover unibody vehicles with ESC.
In Qld there is now NO difference between cars with or without ESC in relation to lifting laws. Refer back to clunking heads like coconuts

Quote:
This means that: a) If I want to lift my Forester to the 75mm limit permitted under the code I have to use springs/shocks/struts in combination with a 50mm increase in tyre diameter.

b) If I want to use strut-top spacers such as I already have installed I have to make application to TMR for their specific approval to go to 50mm and then I am not permitted to increase the tyre size.
I think you are confusing body lift spacers with strut top spacers

We can't do a body lift on a Subaru as it's a monocoque chassis. A body lift refers to lifting the body up off the chassis, which we can't do

The rear multilink spacers don't count as they don't provide any lift, they are simply there for suspension geometry

It's up to you. You can make things as simple or as complicated as you like. I suggest you make it simple. Either way is legal
__________________
SUBIELIFTOZ, QUALITY LIFT KITS FOR SUBARUS
1" & 2" lift kits; custom lift kits; all models
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 29th July 2019, 07:25 PM
Beachworm Beachworm is offline
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Brisbane Australia
Year: 2010
Model: Forester X Luxury, sump guard, bigger AT tyres and 50mm Subieliftoz lift, breather extensions
Transmission: Auto
Posts: 501
Beachworm is on a distinguished road
Default

Sadly, it isn't up to me. TMR are the ones saying that the Code of Practice does not apply to vehicles with monocoque. The ESC is being brought into it too. Initially, the two engineers I contacted didn't know anything about it. One got back to me yesterday to say he now had the information and the TMR is correct. The method of lifting is not so much the issue as the height as far as I'm concerned.

If I want to use anything other than springs and/or struts to achieve a 50mm lift I have to apply directly to TMR for their approval. This is a quote from their email: " Thank you for your enquiry regarding vehicle lift components.

If your vehicle is a ‘monocoque’ constructed vehicle then an application for modification must be submitted to TMR Vehicle Standards for approval, as this is not covered under the code of practice. Please refer to the link below for instructions in the “Specific modifications” section.
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Ve...-modifications

If your vehicle is of a ‘body on frame’ type construction then you will need to look at the LS9/LS10 code. A light vehicle lift that has been carried out by the fitting of spacers on the top of the suspension struts would be regarded as a component of the suspension and would require certification by a TMR approved person/engineer according to the requirements of the LS9/LS10 code of the QCOP (Queensland Code of Practice Vehicle Modifications). For a list of approved persons/engineers in your area who hold LS9/LS10 accreditation please call 13 23 80.

Link to QCOP:
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/S...1018.pdf?la=en

I trust this information is of assistance.

The engineer told me I could have a 50mm suspension lift or a 25mm tyre lift but not both together without getting the vehicle tested for lane change/swerve/moose test, whatever you want to call it.

I am still waiting for the other engineer to get back to me.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 29th July 2019, 10:26 PM
NachaLuva's Avatar
NachaLuva NachaLuva is offline
Senior Member / Product Developer
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SE Melbourne
Posts: 5,677
NachaLuva is on a distinguished road
Default

I call BS. I haven't seen anything where lift or modification rules specify monocoque or body-on-chassis

Look at LS9 & 10. Nothing about either chassis type

This IS up to you, you can make it as hard or easy as you like.
Did you explain to them that you have a MC class vehicle, which is classed EXACTLY THE SAME as a Landcruiser or Patrol? I bet not, perhaps you should mention that to them & listen for the sound their jaws make as they hit the floor

From the point of view of the law, there is no legal distinction between a MC class Forester and a MC class Landcruiser or MC class Patrol

You do need to be careful here. This isn't just you we're talking about. You need to do this carefully & wisely so you don't stir up trouble for the entire lifted Subaru community. There are literally 1000s of people who could be directly affected by the way you handle this
__________________
SUBIELIFTOZ, QUALITY LIFT KITS FOR SUBARUS
1" & 2" lift kits; custom lift kits; all models
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 29th July 2019, 11:24 PM
Beachworm Beachworm is offline
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Brisbane Australia
Year: 2010
Model: Forester X Luxury, sump guard, bigger AT tyres and 50mm Subieliftoz lift, breather extensions
Transmission: Auto
Posts: 501
Beachworm is on a distinguished road
Default

You are making an argument from passion and not logic and you are making assumptions about things you have no knowledge of. Let's get a few things clear.
1. I did provide them with all the information they need to give me the correct advice. They know I am talking about a Subaru Forester and I reminded them it is classified MC.
2. Interpretation of the regulations and codes of practice is not up to me. I spent the last 7 years of my working life as a compliance manager and I think I might know a lot more about this than you do. Government makes Acts, Regulations and approves codes of practice. TMR interprets and applies them and we live with that. We don't have a choice.
3. Sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the bare faced facts is not a suitable solution. Ignorance is no defence at law. The lifted Subaru community needs to come to terms with the reality of the law and it is up to each individual to decide whether they want to comply or not. At least if everyone knows the truth they can make a decision based on the facts and not on inaccurate opinions born from ignorance.
4. I am not responsible for what others choose to do but I am responsible for my own actions. Please don't make threats to me in regard to what you see as my responsibility to others. There are likely to be others, who, like me want their vehicle to be legal. They have a right to know the real facts, not just the ones that serve some people's self interest.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 29th July 2019, 11:38 PM
Kevin's Avatar
Kevin Kevin is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sydney, Oz
Year: MY'03
Model: Forester
Transmission: A/T
Posts: 4,958
Kevin is on a distinguished road
Default

I'll move this thread again to "Mods, Insurance, Local Compliance & you"

Not doubting at all what you've been told Beachworm and I know that Nachaluva has proved he has a great grasp of the law in relation to suspension, after all his business depends on that knowledge.

Also, I do not see Nachaluva's concern as a "threat", he is but trying to assist in a resolution here.
__________________
MY'03 Foz AT XS with centre lock-up
MY'10 Triton AT GLX-R 2.5 DiD
MY'97 Outback RIP
www.subaruclub.com.au
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 02:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.