Insurance: Help yourself...Not them

Ratbag

Ratbag

Administrator
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
7,455
Location
Bayside, Melbourne, Vic
Car Year
MY06, MY10
Car Model
Forester SG & SH
Transmission
5MT/DR & 4EAT Sports
Gidday All

Negotiated a significantly better agreed value with my insurer.

6% higher. Paperwork to come.

I expect this to increase again after I have ticked everything off their new schedule.

What with the trend towards "build your own" that many manufacturers have been offering for years now, the only way to work out a replacement or agreed value (precisely defined legal terms - read your policy document very carefully, folks ... ) is to start at the base model and then add in the cost of each "extra" fitted to your particular vehicle.

For example, both Stilson's and my Foresters are "XS" models, 2007 (MY07) and 2006 (MY06) respectively. Looking at the two side by side, it became apparent that there are several significant differences. His has leather and a sunroof, but lacks the factory CD stacker, fog lights and covers and OEM tow bar. Both are significantly better equipped than their respective "X" models, just differently.

Make dead certain that these differences from the base model are recorded as individual items on your insurance schedule; along with any extras that you might have added. Leave nothing off.


e.g.:
  • OEM tow bar, tongue and ball, including ball protector and bar tongue rubber bumper
  • Roof bars, basket, roof boot, etc
  • Side bottom door protectors
  • Side bottom panel protectors
  • Front/rear mud flaps
  • Headlight/fog light protectors
  • Seat covers (with full description)
  • Floor mats
  • Bumper protector
  • Cargo floor protector
  • Alloy wheels
  • Special/better tyres (i.e. more expensive than "normal". Yokohama Geolandar AT-s cost around $225 a corner; Bridgestone GR90 cost around $159 a corner. That adds around $260 value to the car)
  • Whether you have had significant parts reconditioned or replaced, making the car more easily saleable at a higher price - e.g. re-co engine; suspension; gear box; diffs; AND don't forget things like re-co of air conditioning; replacement battery; alternator; water pump; timing belt; etc, etc.
  • KEEP all receipts and documents!! From the original purchase on. All repairs; services; accessories - the lot!
  • Accessories that are normally carried in the car (specially in the case of theft) such as winch; compressor; tool kit; tyre repair kit; jerry can/s; fridge;
  • Cruise control (I think that some Oz models did not come with this as standard??)
  • Climate control air conditioning (Stilson's has the standard air-con; mine has climate control)
Do the same for anything you tow.
Separate policy, but the same principles apply.

Something as small as locking/security wheel nuts don't cost very much, BUT they are a big deal if someone does manage to steal your alloy rims in spite of them (I have worked out how it could be done ... ), and your insurer starts cutting up rough about it, or about you paying the excess. You can point out that you have gone way beyond your duty of care to the insurer and that they should consequently act in uberrimae fidei and cover your loss without charging the excess, or halving it with you(uberrimae fidei = literally: in the utmost good faith; an old insurance term ... see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurance ).

Ensure that expensive items such as cameras/lenses/accessories, GPS, etc are covered for anywhere in Oz (or your country of stabling, lol) under the "All Risks" section of your home and contents policy.

TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS of everything - SPECIALLY including the car from all angles ... . It may well be your only proof of the existence of these things should your car be stolen or become a burned out wreck, etc.
Repeat this photographic expedition at least annually. It may be your only proof as to what the condition of the car was prior to whatever happened to it.
 
Last edited:
Thats a good point RB.

I could add $5000 worth of mods from roof rackets, towbar to stereo, spotties and uhf.
Might look into it when it comes time to renew my policy.
 
There's some great advice there Ratbag :raz:

I remember on one occasion, with my insurance company, telling them about some of the mods & accessories etc that I had.

They told me that they couldn't fit them on the page (policy) & that I would have to decide which ones I wanted to keep & have covered & which ones I had to take off & not have covered :evil:

I politely told them that what they were saying was a load of :censored: & to make/add another page to the policy & cover all of them :eviltoyou:
And if they didn't, I would take my business & my fathers business elsewhere :yell:
On top of that, I would advise/tell all my friends & the 400-500 people I work with to take there business elsewhere aswell :yell:

They soon found a way to add another page, listing all of the mods & accessories that I had & demanded to have covered on my vehicle & covered them :cool:

Regards
Mr Turbo
 
Some policies limit the accessories to a % of the book value of the car; in my case the book value is $14K - my extras are at least $10K :rolleyes: but I'm covered for just 50% of the book value.
 
Gidday ST

stilson said:
No need to rub it in RB.
Click to expand...

I wasn't rubbing anything in, mate :cool:.

Just a simple example ready to hand as to how careful one must be specifying what is actually on your car, very preferably with photographs for proof.

Sometimes insurers (or more correctly, the assessors who are sometimes paid on a basis of claim minimisation ... ) get very forgetful. Seem to think that an "X" is much the same as an "XS" ... Or that a car with 100Ks on the clock is worth the same as one of the same year and model that has done 260Ks ... :rotfl::rolleyes:

Last year one tried to deduct the pre-existing damage to my niece's car twice after she was involved in a no-fault accident (on her part). He said the car would cost around $1,500 to put into very good condition and deducted this; then he said that very good condition cars were in better condition than hers, so valued hers at the pre-existing damaged value. Then deducted the cost of repairing the pre-existing damage repair cost from this latter figure ...

I pointed out to him that this was double counting, and was not permitted in an accounting sense, or in an insurance sense. He argued the toss with me.
His boss didn't ...
 
Gidday Taz

taza said:
Thats a good point RB.

I could add $5000 worth of mods from roof rackets, towbar to stereo, spotties and uhf.
Might look into it when it comes time to renew my policy.
Click to expand...

Every insurer I have ever dealt with will add these things at any time during the currency of the policy.

If anyone can guarantee that all will be well next week, then they don't need insurance of any kind - car; health; life; house & contents ...

We all hope never to claim on these things, but SWMBO and I can never make a "loss" on our private health insurance because of what's been done to me by way of body and ticker mods ...
Do I wish we were making a "loss" on those premiums? You betcha sweet bippy I do ...

Life is what happens while we are planning other things ... :iconwink:.
 
Do you need to prove that you have those mods, like reciepts for the purchases of the items. To prove you have roof racks, the reciept of purchase and cost, front bar, etc...?
 
G'day again Taz

taza said:
Do you need to prove that you have those mods, like reciepts for the purchases of the items. To prove you have roof racks, the reciept of purchase and cost, front bar, etc...?
Click to expand...

Documentary evidence never hurt anyone's case ... :lol:.

However, taking reasonably decent photos of the items and making a list of them showing your purchase price; approximate (or exact) date of purchase; who from; etc all helps.

Ring up your insurer or broker and find out what documentary evidence they need. Do not be put off by the old BS about how it's not necessary. That is so that the insurer can later claim never to have known about it beforehand, even if the person who makes the statement honestly believes what they are telling you to be true. My older brother was an insurance loss adjuster before he became a barrister.

If you have a list, and they get a copy of that list, and you make sure that your policy document is amended to show the contents of that list with the amounts agreed between you and your insurer, it means that there is far less likely to be a poop fight about things later; as my commercial litigation QC so charmingly calls it.

I have done this with items like my camera gear. Description, serial number, value. AND with a written statement from my insurer that they do NOT consider the items to be a "set". If any item is considered to be part of a "set", there are specific limits on what is covered by most policies.
 
Is all insurance out there based upon "agreed value"? Only time that is used out here is mostly on antique/classic cars/custom cars. Everything else is based on "actual cash value" where the condition/ accessories come into consideration.
 
Gidday Matt

dirtyRU said:
Is all insurance out there based upon "agreed value"? Only time that is used out here is mostly on antique/classic cars/custom cars. Everything else is based on "actual cash value" where the condition/ accessories come into consideration.
Click to expand...

Two valuation systems in use here - "agreed sum" and "market value".
Usually, agreed sum is only available for cars under about ten years old.
Market value is usually (much) less than replacement value, as it usually excludes stamp duty; registration fees; dealer insurance costs; goods and services tax, etc, etc.

There is also usually an option to have only third-party property damage insurance ("TPPD") that doesn't cover you at all, only anyone you happen to run into ...

Personal injury arising from motor vehicle accidents are covered by a statutory system run by the various State governments - part of the cost of registering one's vehicle/s.

Of course, the details are a tad more complex than my simplistic explanation here ...

In the case of my own "new" Forester, the agreed sum is made up of the purchase price of the vehicle (which includes all those excluded items ... ), PLUS the valuation agreed between the insurer and myself as to the value added by the extras fitted to the car, even if I originally purchased many of them with the vehicle.

This is the insurer's way of acknowledging (accounting for) that I got a really good deal, as I paid nearly $4,000 less than the normal going rate for the vehicle I bought with most of those extras already on it.

IOW, if I were to insist that they honour the indemnity clause in the policy by providing me with a replacement for a write-off of my existing vehicle with a vehicle of similar age that was in very similar condition mechanically and cosmetically, with around the same mileage on it, they would have to pay about what they have agreed to insure it for. This keeps everyone honest, IMO.
 
Gidday Spike

spikeoo1 said:
Good work mate! thanks heaps!

Wana help me get a better deal RB!?
Click to expand...

Sorry mate. I saw your post earlier, then got sidetracked ...
After all, this is an Off Road forum ... :iconwink: :lildevil:.

I have a love/hate relationship with insurance companies. A bit like the Police, really. I am in favour of both, and support the work that the Police are there to do. I also understand that some people lie, cheat and steal; but, and it's a BIG BUT, that does NOT give either of them the right to treat us ALL as if we were criminals ... :( :shake: :catfight: :censored:

If I can help with any insurance issues you might have, feel free to drop me a PM here. I will help if I can.
 
Gidday Mr T

mr turbo said:
There's some great advice there Ratbag :raz:
Click to expand...

Thanks mate. I should have learned something after all the mistakes I have made, in all the years I have been on this Planet. One of the things I have learned is not to be too trusting of insurance companies. This allows me to deal in a robust but completely honest way with them, right from the start.

I remember on one occasion, with my insurance company, telling them about some of the mods & accessories etc that I had.

They told me that they couldn't fit them on the page (policy) & that I would have to decide which ones I wanted to keep & have covered & which ones I had to take off & not have covered :evil:

I politely told them that what they were saying was a load of :censored: & to make/add another page to the policy & cover all of them :eviltoyou:
And if they didn't, I would take my business & my fathers business elsewhere :yell:
On top of that, I would advise/tell all my friends & the 400-500 people I work with to take there business elsewhere aswell :yell:

They soon found a way to add another page, listing all of the mods & accessories that I had & demanded to have covered on my vehicle & covered them :cool:

Regards
Mr Turbo
Click to expand...

Congratulations, and good on you for standing up to their stand-over tactics.
It is exactly what I am trying to communicate particularly to the younger/less experienced members here. You are not powerless. You can stand up for yourself. In doing so, you are also standing up for others who cannot. Always remain calm. Always be reasonable. Always try to see their point of view (it helps you to overcome it, LOL!). Always be civil.

When my PDA went for a swim recently, my broker offered, OFFERED mind you, to prosecute my case with the insurer for its replacement with the Blackberry. I am still undecided as to whether it is reasonable to expect my insurer to cover this, but my broker has made it absolutely clear, in writing, that the offer stands if I change my mind.

One long fight I had with my then insurer was that they had to provide a replacement vehicle for SWMBO when hers was damaged in a no-fault situation on her part. It took six months, but they paid for it while her car was being repaired. We do not have 'replacement vehicle' insurance, and if the accident is in any way our fault, we wear that. BUT they indemnify us against loss for which the accident is the proximate and reasonably foreseeable cause. Loss of the use of one's vehicle is pretty "reasonably foreseeable" IMFAO.

Ten years or so later, the Full Federal Court (IIRC) found against the industry for denying this indemnity to people, and validated my previously successfully argued case.

Always remember folks - you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar; but always be prepared to persist if your cause is just ... :poke:
 
Update on insured value of Roo2

Gidday again folks

In some robust and detailed discussions with my insurer today, the "Agreed Value" of my vehicle plus extras is now 25.2% more than they were originally offering when the first renewal notice came out.

This is a very significant increase in the agreed value of over $5,000.

The agreed value is now some $6,250 more than I actually paid for the vehicle. Some of this increase is based on my insurer agreeing that I had " ... got a very good deal for a 2006 low-mileage Forester XS ... " (about $2,000 to $2,500 better than 'average') and the balance on the basis of the extras fitted.

In order to insure for this amount, my premium has also risen by 8.7%. Fair enough.

They agreed to this based on my detailed list of extras and equipment levels.

My argument basically consisted of the fact that Subaru introduced the concept of "Build your own" around this time. It appears that I have a mid-2006 XS with either the "Luxury Option Pack"; or a series of additional extras that constitute this; without the sunroof and leather seats.

AFAICT, the 6 stacker in-dash CD with 7 speakers and sub-woofer amp was always a very expensive optional extra here in Oz, whether one bought the luxury pack or not. Ditto the climate control a/c. It seems that one could play mix-n-match with the luxury pack options all over the place!

I have sent an email to the dealer who originally sold the vehicle new asking them for a copy of the order or dealer delivery form/s (with the name of the purchaser removed - I actually have that anyway!). I am yet to receive a reply, but early days yet.

So what exactly is insured with my vehicle?

Purchase price

PLUS:

  • Metallic paint
  • OEM towbar kit fitted
  • Side protection panels and under door sill trim
  • Floor mats
  • Fog light protectors
  • Sheepskin seat covers (front)
  • Alloy wheel lock nuts
  • Chipped entry and starter ignition key
  • Alloy spare wheel
  • OEM roof bars
  • Rola roof basket and attachment kit
  • Milford cargo restraint
  • Climate control a/c
  • In-dash 6 stacker CD/Radio with 7 speakers including sub-woofer.
Some of these items have been added by them to clarify what they are insuring (e.g. to my knowledge, one could not buy an MY06 XS without metallic paint; but I could be wrong about this. I have never seen one).

Many of these extras have been added in by them at new (replacement) cost, not at depreciated cost. My argument here was that it often costs as much for a s/h part as the original part cost historically. They accepted this argument without a fight.

They have also informed me that they are not concerned about my fitting 215/65 16" in lieu of the 215/60 16" standard tyres (to correct my speedo). They would not allow any increase in width of the tyres without that voiding my insurance (increased risk of aquaplaning is my guess).

I would have to get this in writing from them, of course.

I will also have to check with the RTA here as to the legality of this.

Just shows what can be achieved if you talk sensibly and factually to your insurer. The phone jockey had to get approval to insure for this value, as outside the maximum range, apparently.

So all up including all the extras, I paid about 46% of the replacement cost of a new equivalent at today's prices, and they have now insured the vehicle for 59% of that new value. This is consistent with the fact that it has done only about 100,000 kms and is only about 6 years old (5.75 yrs). This is around 1/3rd of the vehicle's economic lifespan in both cases.
 
Ratbag said:
Gidday again folks

In some robust and detailed discussions with my insurer today, the "Agreed Value" of my vehicle plus extras is now 25.2% more than they were originally offering when the first renewal notice came out.

This is a very significant increase in the agreed value of over $5,000.

The agreed value is now some $6,250 more than I actually paid for the vehicle. Some of this increase is based on my insurer agreeing that I had " ... got a very good deal for a 2006 low-mileage Forester XS ... " (about $2,000 to $2,500 better than 'average') and the balance on the basis of the extras fitted.

In order to insure for this amount, my premium has also risen by 8.7%. Fair enough.

They agreed to this based on my detailed list of extras and equipment levels.

My argument basically consisted of the fact that Subaru introduced the concept of "Build your own" around this time. It appears that I have a mid-2006 XS with either the "Luxury Option Pack"; or a series of additional extras that constitute this; without the sunroof and leather seats.

AFAICT, the 6 stacker in-dash CD with 7 speakers and sub-woofer amp was always a very expensive optional extra here in Oz, whether one bought the luxury pack or not. Ditto the climate control a/c. It seems that one could play mix-n-match with the luxury pack options all over the place!

I have sent an email to the dealer who originally sold the vehicle new asking them for a copy of the order or dealer delivery form/s (with the name of the purchaser removed - I actually have that anyway!). I am yet to receive a reply, but early days yet.

So what exactly is insured with my vehicle?

Purchase price

PLUS:

  • Metallic paint
  • OEM towbar kit fitted
  • Side protection panels and under door sill trim
  • Floor mats
  • Fog light protectors
  • Sheepskin seat covers (front)
  • Alloy wheel lock nuts
  • Chipped entry and starter ignition key
  • Alloy spare wheel
  • OEM roof bars
  • Rola roof basket and attachment kit
  • Milford cargo restraint
  • Climate control a/c
  • In-dash 6 stacker CD/Radio with 7 speakers including sub-woofer.
Some of these items have been added by them to clarify what they are insuring (e.g. to my knowledge, one could not buy an MY06 XS without metallic paint; but I could be wrong about this. I have never seen one).

Many of these extras have been added in by them at new (replacement) cost, not at depreciated cost. My argument here was that it often costs as much for a s/h part as the original part cost historically. They accepted this argument without a fight.

They have also informed me that they are not concerned about my fitting 215/65 16" in lieu of the 215/60 16" standard tyres (to correct my speedo). They would not allow any increase in width of the tyres without that voiding my insurance (increased risk of aquaplaning is my guess).

I would have to get this in writing from them, of course.

I will also have to check with the RTA here as to the legality of this.

Just shows what can be achieved if you talk sensibly and factually to your insurer. The phone jockey had to get approval to insure for this value, as outside the maximum range, apparently.

So all up including all the extras, I paid about 46% of the replacement cost of a new equivalent at today's prices, and they have now insured the vehicle for 59% of that new value. This is consistent with the fact that it has done only about 100,000 kms and is only about 6 years old (5.75 yrs). This is around 1/3rd of the vehicle's economic lifespan in both cases.
Click to expand...


Nice!!
It's something I definately need to do with my insurer once I do the custom gearbox, etc..
With all my little mods im sure the price would go up a good 5k if not a few thousand more with the Gb and bullbar.
 
Gidday Taza

taza said:
Nice!!
It's something I definately need to do with my insurer once I do the custom gearbox, etc..
With all my little mods im sure the price would go up a good 5k if not a few thousand more with the Gb and bullbar.
Click to expand...

Quite.
Even though I don't know of any insurer who will place an "agreed value" on any vehicle over 10 years old (forgetting about collectors items and the like FTM), it always helps even with "market value" policies to document with your insurer, the condition and extras on your particular vehicle.

Also for this reason, it pays to take photos of everything, specially all your panel work. Think about it like this: if some mongrel steals your car and then torches it, how can the assessor know whether you had a $20,000 custom paint job in immaculate condition or standard and buggered? They can always be relied upon to assess to the lowest figure imaginable; so you need photos to prove what you assert about the cosmetic condition of your vehicle. That includes both inside and outside, plus photos of any extras and sufficient of your vehicle to identify it as such.

I have discussed this on many occasions with insurers and they have all agreed. It makes for pleasant dealings if an unpleasant event occurs ...
 
Ratbag said:
Gidday Taza



Quite.
Even though I don't know of any insurer who will place an "agreed value" on any vehicle over 10 years old (forgetting about collectors items and the like FTM), it always helps even with "market value" policies to document with your insurer, the condition and extras on your particular vehicle.

Also for this reason, it pays to take photos of everything, specially all your panel work. Think about it like this: if some mongrel steals your car and then torches it, how can the assessor know whether you had a $20,000 custom paint job in immaculate condition or standard and buggered? They can always be relied upon to assess to the lowest figure imaginable; so you need photos to prove what you assert about the cosmetic condition of your vehicle. That includes both inside and outside, plus photos of any extras and sufficient of your vehicle to identify it as such.

I have discussed this on many occasions with insurers and they have all agreed. It makes for pleasant dealings if an unpleasant event occurs ...
Click to expand...

I'll give it a shot anyway as my car is almost 11yrs old :(
 
G'day again Taz

taza said:
I'll give it a shot anyway as my car is almost 11yrs old :(
Click to expand...

Do not let that bother you. It just means that you are now on "market value" rates for your particular vehicle.

While not as good as "agreed value" in some ways (see upthread), your vehicle's market value is determined by all sorts of things about your vehicle and its specific condition.

For example, ATM your Fox has a decreased market value because of the poor maintenance by the previous owner (if your Fox were a horse, the RSPCA would be after him ... :( :lol: ). However, once you have done all the rectification work, it will have an increased market value because of this.

It looks to me as if your panel and paint work is in very good condition, and make sure you take photos of the interior after you have given it the best clean of its life! Cosmetic condition is the first thing an assessor will judge the car on. They may not even notice the poor mechanical health if the engine will no longer run!

It is very important IME that one's car looks very well cared for. If it looks like crap when you have an accident, the loss adjuster will immediately place the value at the very bottom of the range. This first impression can be very hard to change later. It is an excellent reason to keep your car clean and looking well at all times.

I am also far from perfect in this regard. It is a counsel of perfection. It also helps to protect your duco if it is washed regularly with something like Turtle Wax (NOT ever with domestic detergent. These all contain salt ... and it penetrates into the joins in the body work :( ).

I got half way through doing our Camry with Porzelack when my shoulders clapped out. It is a superb polish/wax containing high levels of Carnauba wax:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnauba_wax
Sure makes it look far better. I need to give it a bath and finish the job.

Once I have done the petrol tanker (the Camry ... ), I will give Roo2 a coat.
The higher the proportion of this in the car polish, the better it protects, and the more expensive it becomes ...

IME, this needs to be done about once a year, but it depends. When water doesn't bead on the paintwork is when it needs to be re-done. This also helps protect the car's paint from UV damage. One could think of it as lessening the car melanoma rate ... :iconwink: :lol: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Roo1 had a couple of small but nasty "melanomas" that had to be cut out. Cost me a grand!
 
Ratbag said:
G'day again Taz

Do not let that bother you. It just means that you are now on "market value" rates for your particular vehicle.

While not as good as "agreed value" in some ways (see upthread), your vehicle's market value is determined by all sorts of things about your vehicle and its specific condition.

For example, ATM your Fox has a decreased market value because of the poor maintenance by the previous owner (if your Fox were a horse, the RSPCA would be after him ... :( :lol: ). However, once you have done all the rectification work, it will have an increased market value because of this.

It looks to me as if your panel and paint work is in very good condition, and make sure you take photos of the interior after you have given it the best clean of its life! Cosmetic condition is the first thing an assessor will judge the car on. They may not even notice the poor mechanical health if the engine will no longer run!

It is very important IME that one's car looks very well cared for. If it looks like crap when you have an accident, the loss adjuster will immediately place the value at the very bottom of the range. This first impression can be very hard to change later. It is an excellent reason to keep your car clean and looking well at all times.

I am also far from perfect in this regard. It is a counsel of perfection. It also helps to protect your duco if it is washed regularly with something like Turtle Wax (NOT ever with domestic detergent. These all contain salt ... and it penetrates into the joins in the body work :( ).

I got half way through doing our Camry with Porzelack when my shoulders clapped out. It is a superb polish/wax containing high levels of Carnauba wax:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnauba_wax
Sure makes it look far better. I need to give it a bath and finish the job.

Once I have done the petrol tanker (the Camry ... ), I will give Roo2 a coat.
The higher the proportion of this in the car polish, the better it protects, and the more expensive it becomes ...

IME, this needs to be done about once a year, but it depends. When water doesn't bead on the paintwork is when it needs to be re-done. This also helps protect the car's paint from UV damage. One could think of it as lessening the car melanoma rate ... :iconwink: :lol: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Roo1 had a couple of small but nasty "melanomas" that had to be cut out. Cost me a grand!
Click to expand...


Condition wise my Foz has alot less car park dents and the likes for its age. the bumpers have some slight scuffing on the undersides from offroad but upwise they aren't pressed in by reversing into anything and the paint work cmoes up really well with a good wash and polish. especially for its age. The interior condition again is in good condition, a few scuffs but what car thats over 10years old doesn't have any. Again no tears in the seats or stains.

For example if the car were in a major accident most of the time its not driven out but towed so the mechanical condition is unknown :iconwink:

But that's soon to be changed with all this money being poored into it. I know at the present time for my car (being a Limited model too, so comaprable to an XS) is insured for $9,500 bone stock. Then adding all the accessories and mods.

eg. Boot liner, lift kit and suspension work, roof racks, basket, spotties, seat covers, stereo(head unit, sub, amps, speakers),tow bar, sumpguard, floor mats, uhf, etc... then soon the charger, custom gearbox with LSD's and front bar. All up it adds to quite a few thousand dollars.

Did you send photo's into your insurer as proof of what you have?
 
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