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  #1  
Unread 25th August 2018, 07:47 AM
ABFoz ABFoz is online now
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Default CVT and Off-road

Hi guys,

I have no experience with the CVT yet and while my SportShift 4EAT can go places, I would like to get insights from you guys about whether or not there are issues with the use of the CVT transmission with the stuff that we do.

I am asking because I just found some videos on my YouTube front page related to newer Subarus showcasing capabilities and AWD system. I found some praising the system and another which just popped up yesterday and the Outback seemed to be struggling with an axle twister.

This is one from Slovakia about the Outback:
This is another from the US but more of a versus:
Another from Slovakia comparing with others but the video is older:
When the Outback went diagonal on the one from Slovakia, the wheels were spinning fast trying to gain traction but on the one from the US, the wheels just seem to be shutting off.

What are your insights?

Cheers,
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  #2  
Unread 25th August 2018, 09:23 AM
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I think the second video shows the limit of what Subaru electronics and cvt can do. In my most recent trip, Alex’s SH when it wasn’t wheel spinning would also just sit there, engine revving but nothing happening, although his car had the 4 speed auto. I expected a better showing from x mode, and when you saw the first video you would think the car would easily handle what we saw in video 2. Video 2 more closely resembled what the SH and my SG tackled on my most recent trip.

It’s hard not to draw the conclusion that x mode isn’t as good as a rear locker and dccd combination.
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  #3  
Unread 25th August 2018, 02:24 PM
MiddleAgeSubie MiddleAgeSubie is offline
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Funnily, someone just posted the second video on the OB forum.

In short: the OB on that video would do fine with momentum, TC off, and proper and/or aired down tires. It is not possible to drive an AWD like a Wrangler. Or vice-versa, I guess.

That said, Alex's video did show exactly where the limits are. They are not that low but they are very real.

And, yes, DCCD+rear locker should beat VDC with x-mode any time. Also, don't forget the low range gearbox.
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  #4  
Unread 25th August 2018, 04:05 PM
scalman scalman is offline
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i saw jeep vs outback video just other day and i think because they just bought outback they still dont know how to drive it . you cant drive outback like 4wd car with low gear. its different . and you need to give VDC gas and give it some time to figure it out. and in video you can make look bad any car you want too. just make one one low psi and other on high psi in tires and it will be night and day diference.
though im curious does that CVT is made more for city and not so much for off road ? some old school auto 4eat or 5eat maybe could do that better.
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  #5  
Unread 25th August 2018, 04:48 PM
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There are many times when you have to go very slowly off roading to avoid bounce and damage. Especially when you don't have a sump guard. When I first installed my rear diff locker I went too fast, and and while it was only by 3-4kmh it was enough to damage the sump guard. That's what it's there for, but it proved again that I had to crawl really slowly over difficult terrain if I want my car to survive.
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  #6  
Unread 25th August 2018, 07:30 PM
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I'm definitely with Rally on this one. I've seen the 5 yr old vid that TFL did on the outback (the one that stopped Subaru from lending them cars) and this latest vid shows not much has improved regarding offroad ability.
I think Xmode is probably best suited to snow and sand, not bumpy stuff and CVT is all about efficiency, not raw power.
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  #7  
Unread 25th August 2018, 10:57 PM
ABFoz ABFoz is online now
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I agree with your points. I am not a fan of intrusive electronics. They have been the norm lately, where even road-going low ground clearance crossovers would use their traction control/ABS to trick the open diffs, making them go off-road. I also think the second video is a limitation to such systems.

Interestingly, I had a very similar climb 12 days ago and was surprised that the JDM SG made it fine. A random BH Lancaster who was also there said that many modern unlocked trucks/utes encounter trouble in that specific place. His BH did not have a problem but saw some 2.5 SGs struggle.

I was wondering, though, could that Outback in the video have made it with X-mode off? I can see that the system limits power delivery to the tires so aggressively.
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  #8  
Unread 26th August 2018, 03:15 AM
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You can never be sure watching videos as to how hard they really are. I reckon my SG could get up there (video 2) no worries, but I don’t really know.
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  #9  
Unread 26th August 2018, 03:27 AM
scalman scalman is offline
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There are other videos that shows how x mode is doing good job on subarus. Just because someone drove it too slowlh and carefully doesnt mean nothing. But why they took 2.5 model, it looks like on steeper hills it just lacks power / torque to wheels.
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  #10  
Unread 26th August 2018, 04:16 AM
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The reason it looks like they lack power to the wheels is because they do. The vdc or x mode is reducing the power, and/or applying the brakes. That is the point. It has nothing to do with driving too slowly. If they drove faster they could hole the sump. How are the electronics going to deal with that?
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