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  #61  
Old 5th December 2017, 03:30 PM
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Essentially what they are saying is that in terms of puncture resistance, there is nothing between road tyres and a/t tyres. I agree. They also say that the most important feature for a tyre in the outback is puncture resistance. I agree. They really don’t compare grip levels, which signifies 2 things. One is it is nowhere near as important as puncture resistance, the second is that there is not a big enough difference.

On road of course grip levels are far more critical, and this is where compromise comes in. Big heavy tyres are hard on suspension because unsprung weight makes the car ride worse and over works shock absorbers. Cross ply tyres are not used on the road for a reason. So it comes down to a compromise. And those tyre types they recommend are most likely not available in sizes that legally or practically fit our cars. So it’s back to the road tyre vs a/t tyre vs m/t.
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  #62  
Old 5th December 2017, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally View Post
As such, getting one particular type of AT tyre and using it in a different environment could have adverse affects. What helps in sand works against you on rock. My argument has been that where I take my road tyres, which excludes sand and snow/ice, it does work. When people ask here and elsewhere about what AT tyre to get, i don’t see questions been asked about usage. Just replies about how people love or hate the tyres they have and have had, with little to no reference to usage.
Many people, myself included, will recommend particular brands for particular usage. The WA guys with their soft sand recommend road tyres or supple ATs like Geolanders or Toyo.

My typical response (which my phone's predictive text knows off by heart!) is:
"Geolander G012 or G015 for mostly onroad or beach driving.
BFG KO2s for rocky or muddy tracks or touring the outback."

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Originally Posted by duncanm View Post
Do you guys know who this is? Connie Sue Beadell is the daughter of the famous Len Beadell, the guy whose team built some of the most famous tracks in Australia...Gunbarrel Hwy, Gary Hwy, Anne Beadell Hwy, etc. He was a true legend of the outback!!

His daughter & her husband Mick now run tag along tours on these tracks & more, plus "off track" tours where they literally bush bash cross country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally View Post
Essentially what they are saying is that in terms of puncture resistance, there is nothing between road tyres and a/t tyres. I agree.
This is what they say:

"H/T - Highway Terrain = 90% On-road/ 10% Off-road
These tyres look similar to a normal car tyre, for high speed and comfort. A/T - All Terrain = 60% On-road/ 40% Off-road
General-purpose 4wd tyre, the best compromise for On-Road noise and comfort & Off-Road traction and durability. The majority of 4wd tyres are A/Ts.
M/T - Mud Terrain = 85% Off-road/ 15% On-road
Specific tyres for maximum traction in rough, wet, steep & rocky conditions, they have aggressive tread patterns. M/T tyres are designed for mostly Off-Road use.


The commonly available Steel Belted Radial tyres easily handle the vast majority of 4wd work; regardless of brand or width they will do the job for you. Normal Off-road work is quite within the capability of these tyres, whether you are rattling along the "Gunbarrel Highway" on those mongrel corrugations, creeping down a track in the Victorian High Country or sand driving on Fraser Island, Steel Belted Radial tyres are just the things."

Quote:
They also say that the most important feature for a tyre in the outback is puncture resistance. I agree.
They say the best tyres for offroad are all terrains, but not for off-track:

"None of these tyres have sidewalls strong enough to resist serious damage while travelling Off-track. Due to the construction of Radial tyres the sidewalls are extremely vulnerable to punctures and tearing from stakes. If you intend to do any sort of Off-track work, there are better tyres on the market than Steel Belted Radials."

They are talking about Off-track not offroad here, very different:

There is onroad (roads, streets, highways freeways, etc)
Offroad (gravel roads are classified as offroad, plus 4wd tracks beaches, sand dunes, etc)
Off-track (no road, no track, no nothing, just scrub). Lots of sharp jagged fallen branches poking up at all angles ready to stake the sidewall. THIS is what they are talking about, not offroad. It is extreme & tests every aspect of the vehicle & tyres like you can't imagine.
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Last edited by NachaLuva; 7th December 2017 at 08:25 PM.
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  #63  
Old 5th December 2017, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duncanm View Post
There seems to be people arguing past each other on this thread.. no matter.

"Like a circle in a spiral Like a wheel within a wheel Never ending or beginning On an ever-spinning reel.......In the windmills of your mind"






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  #64  
Old 5th December 2017, 09:34 PM
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The main point I note from that and various other sources is that for our applications / sizes available, the best puncture resistance you're going to get is from LT tyre construction.
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  #65  
Old 5th December 2017, 10:19 PM
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Yes definitely

I'm not sure what cross ply (bias ply) tyres are available but I doubt they're available in our sizes & I think would be very poor onroad
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Last edited by Kevin; 6th December 2017 at 07:30 PM. Reason: Unnecessary use of Quote
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  #66  
Old 6th December 2017, 08:23 AM
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Cool, the forum is coming alive...
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  #67  
Old 6th December 2017, 08:34 AM
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I was thinking the same thing. The most posts I've seen for a long time!
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  #68  
Old 7th December 2017, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duncanm View Post
The main point I note from that and various other sources is that for our applications / sizes available, the best puncture resistance you're going to get is from LT tyre construction.
Exactly, but in AT applications they also come with robust sidewall protectors.

Now, I am not saying that LT tires are great for a DD on a Subaru. On the OB forum, I am the person advocating P-metric tires for DD because most folks there just put KO2s for looks, which is a mistake for the reasons mentioned by Rally. No disagreement here. They actually handle, corner, and brake surprisingly well (especially with my upgraded brakes), but they impact acceleration, ride, noise, and are also heavier, so presumably tax the suspension more.

There is no way to get everything in one package, that is why I am happy with two sets of tires.
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  #69  
Old 8th December 2017, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duncanm View Post
The main point I note from that and various other sources is that for our applications / sizes available, the best puncture resistance you're going to get is from LT tyre construction.
Agreed.
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  #70  
Old 8th December 2017, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
"Like a circle in a spiral Like a wheel within a wheel Never ending or beginning On an ever-spinning reel.......In the windmills of your mind"






Agreed, it's going nowhere. I've made my points and I'll stick by them. It's up to others to make their own decisions. If a newbie is keen to go off roading, then they should do what most others do and that is with someone who knows what they are doing. When I first went off road, with Kevin, I had a car that was totally stock. We went down some pretty good tracks, and I needed him to make sure that my unprotected sump was clear. If people decide to go and jump off the deep end, then that is their call. Numerous times I have put calls out to go on trips, and the responses have been underwhelming. If they have limited driving skills, reading stuff on forums isn't going to save them.

Recently I was invited to go on a day trip by some inexperienced Subaru owners. While we were airing down, I explained to them what they needed to do. 2 did not have sump guards. When the tracks got harder, one of the newbies was stuck and he asked me to come and get him out. I then drove the car up the hill he had not been able to climb. Later, a second bloke became stuck and asked me to get him out. I drove that car out as well. As I did so, the third newbie followed where I went. Now he and the others understood the theory I had spoken about whilst airing down.

It shows that you can say what you like about how to do things, either in person or on the forum, but those newbies Matt is concerned about will still run into trouble if they are not gifted or not taught. All three on our trip drove quite well afterwards, and understood about wheel placement in a way that would not have been possible if they had not seen it being done first hand. So no, if someone slides off a track because they did something stupid (such as without someone competent around), that is their fault and their fault alone. If they wish to learn, then it is up to them to get taught. I am sure experienced people on this forum are willing to help just like I did.
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