4WD Subaru wagon - what models?

I am interested in finding a 4WD older Subaru as distinct from a AWD model, which I know is common.
Can someone please advise what models featured 4WD and what year they stopped? (If they stopped producing them in Australia, that is).


I currently have an old 1800 Subaru Brumby, but it is not registrable and I only use for getting up and down a mountain (off road).



Jim.

Rally said:

Only the early Subarus have 4wd, Foresters and Outback’s are awd.

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[MENTION=16011]Jim0000[/MENTION] AWD subies can do lots of tough terrain as well :iconwink:

Subaru L Series - last produced 1994 according to wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Leone

Here's my AWD Foz doing the famous Spanish Steps in the Blue Mtns:

doesnt mean those older 4WD subarus are better. but they do look cool for sure. so maybe because of look

The MYs ended production in 1984 and are the same front end shape and general platform as the brumby.

L series production ran from 1984 (1985 for 4wd wagons) until 1994 in pretty much the same format with the EA82 and dual range 4wd manual. The l series is underpowered to say the least. I love the shape of them though.

Cheers

Bennie

Edit: after reading your intro thread I'd suggest looking at a foz to begin with. It's got extra height over the L or MY, a better engine and has loads of supporting mods to make them easily capable of difficult off-road terrain.
You can go the L or MY but you'll need loads of mods to make the really good off-road over the likes of a foz in my opinion. I've had my L series for 12 years now and there's not much on it that's original... But I love it!

4WD Subaru.

Thanks for the post with details Kevin and Freddo.
That is what i thought actually.

My understanding is that the nomenclature "AWD" was adopted by Subaru as a marketing move to appeal to a wider market, particularly in the US and Europe where snow driving is critical. The term was already being used by other manufacturers and, from a marketing point of view, it seems that Subaru made the right move. Any changes that took place in the drive system around the same time have nothing to do with one being 4WD and the other being AWD except that some people believe that it can only be called a 4WD if you can manually change between 2WD and 4WD.


The real world difference is insignificant and highly debatable. My 2010 Forester is, in my mind, a 4WD

Awd is a marketing badge. However, I differentiate between awd and 4wd more for on road ability than off road ability. For me, the centre differential is key. I don’t consider a car without one as awd. And unless the centre diff can be locked, if a car does have a centre diff, it’s not a 4wd. I’m not saying that is how it technically is or isn’t. I think there is a real world difference and having terms such as awd and 4wd are as good a way of any to distinguish each

[MENTION=15642]Beachworm[/MENTION] - full time 4wd was replaced with All Wheel Drive by many manufacturers as they dropped the ability to lock the centre diff to be "truly 4wd".

Plus many don't know the difference between the two and also don't want a 4wd as that brings an image of a large fuel drinking off-road beast that's hard to park/drive in peak hour every day.



Bennie

Technically speaking, if it has 4 wheels and they all drive, it's a 4 wheel drive.

Historically speaking, its a different matter because people cling to the past like it's a matter of life and death. For some, if it doesn't have a full chassis and truck-like mechanicals it isn't a true 4 wheel drive.

The truth is that 4 wheel drives have evolved over the years and we now have the historical detritus littering the 4WD community.

The need to engineer a compromise into 4WD design came about as motoring itself moved from short distance utilitarian transport to long distance luxury transport as a primary function of the vehicle. People who couldn't afford to own both a 4WD truck and a luxury sedan constituted a ready market for what has come to be known as a crossover vehicle (the ute, conceived, born and now deceased in Australia is another example of automotive engineering compromise).

What we seem to refer to as AWD vehicles incorporate the refinements that modern technology has made possible with the capacity to negotiate difficult terrain and unsealed surfaces with varying degrees (usually somewhat compromised) of ability.

This means that even an SG Forester is still a 4WD (I seem to remember seeing a 4WD badge on the back of one today). Is it valid to draw a distinction between a Forester with an owner-fitted switch to change a variable centre differential into a locker and a later model Forester with a manufacturer fitted computerised system that makes a similar variable centre differential into a virtual locker. The latter, in some circles technically better because it allows all the engine's torque to be sent to the wheels with grip rather than just 50%. The only real advantage of a switchable locker that has been pointed out to me previously is that it is proactive, tending to prevent loss of traction completely.

This argument is now having an impact on Subaru owners, preventing us from taking our vehicles into places designated for 4 wheel drives. The group that oversees the management of North Stradbroke Island National Park has specifically designated the island's beaches a no-go area for All Wheel Drives. They have made no attempt to define the difference between All Wheel Drive and 4 Wheel Drive. My communication with them informed me that a permit will only be issued for vehicles where 4Wheel Drive can be selected but at other times operate in 2WD. Any person who applies for a permit on line and is deemed by the rangers to be driving an AWD will be evicted from the national park and will not be given a refund.

I pointed out to them that this would also exclude Landrovers/Rangerovers other than the Defender, several Toyotas including Landcruiser AWDs The Jeep Grand Cherokee (which wouldn't be a bad move anyway) and many other competent off-roaders that have constant or permanent 4WD. I received no response.

The talk is that the same restriction will eventually be applied to Bribie Island and Fraser Island. How long will it be until all National Parks operate under the same regulations. Where will we go then? There will be no Offroad Subarus in Australia!

Please don't put the brand down. Subarus are 4WD. Those that are plated MC in Australia are off-road 4WD (look up the definition of MC). Let's get it right or we'll all be looking for something else to drive!

Ah so you have an agenda behind your question/quest to work it out. That changes the game.

I bet you'll find those making the decisions come from a "traditional" 4wd background. You can also bet your bottom dollar that those AWD rigs you've listed above will be allowed in. It's politics gone wrong.

You'll have to deal with this as a political issue - get a group of like minded people together and start rallying your local state members.

There will still be plenty of awesome places to go 4wdn without these permits or restrictions - and there will be less "my 4wd is bigger than yours" mentality found there too. Those islands are going to be ruined by the number of muppets that think they know better than everyone because of the vehicle they drive.

Cheers

Bennie

My Foz must be 4WD as it has a centre diff lock and I can change to 2WD by inserting a fuse in the FWD slot so to be more convincing I could just wire that to a switch that says "2WD/4WD" then all would be OK! :iconwink:

Beachworm said:

Please don't put the brand down. Subarus are 4WD. Those that are plated MC in Australia are off-road 4WD (look up the definition of MC). Let's get it right or we'll all be looking for something else to drive!

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This _should_ be the difference. The problem is there are a lot of softroaders that are AWD. none of them have an MC classification but the subaru, as far as I'm aware (maybe some of the hyundais?)

Is it local or state controlled?

Either way, as Bennie said, it's political. Currently you're dealing with bureaucrats who will just dig in and be obstinate until someone higher up tells them to pull their heads in, you gotta go up the ladder.

See my comments below.

Ben Up North said:

This _should_ be the difference. The problem is there are a lot of softroaders that are AWD. none of them have an MC classification but the subaru, as far as I'm aware (maybe some of the hyundais?)

The following vehicles have MC classification:
Audi Q5
Bentley Bentayga
BMW X3
Holden Trailblazer
Infiniti QX80
Isuzu MU-X (also available in 2WD which is MA)
Jeep Wrangler
Land Rover Discovery
Land Rover Discovery Sport
Lexus LX570
Mazda CX-9 (also available in 2WD which is MA)
Mercedes-Benz G-Class
Nissan Dualis
Nissan Y62 Patrol
Mitsubishi Pajero
Mitsubishi Pajero Sport
Porsche Cayenne
Range Rover Sport
Range Rover
Ssangyong Rexton
Subaru Forester
Subaru Outback
Suzuki Jimny
Suzuki Grand Vitara (also available in 2WD)
Toyota FJ Cruiser
Toyota Fortuner
Toyota Prado
Toyota LC200
Volvo XC60
Volvo XC70
Volvo XC90
VW Touraeg

The following vehicles are not classified MC:
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Jeep Renegade Trailhawk
Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
Ford Everest
HAVAL H9

Is it local or state controlled?

I assume you refer to the issue on North Stradbroke Island - the issue is complicated. All National Parks are Federal (National) however, management of certain areas has been placed in the hands of local indigenous Land Councils and I support this. There seems to be a strong move towards strict environmental management principles and although reasons have not been given, my guess is that there has been some concern with ill-prepared campers getting bogged and damaging vegetation by making new tracks around difficult sections. The blame for this has been placed on people using vehicles (AWD) that do not have the ability to stick to the established tracks so the solution is to ban them all.

It is difficult to address this issue while at the same time, demonstrating appropriate respect for the cultural values of the traditional landowners and their capacity to manage the national park in a responsible manner. Knowing who to speak to is also an issue because the person in the chair is not necessarily the one influencing the decisions.

My concern is that what seems like a simple solution in the first instance will be copied in other areas as has already been proposed and eventually adopted nationally as a standard for management of all national parks.

Either way, as Bennie said, it's political. Currently you're dealing with bureaucrats who will just dig in and be obstinate until someone higher up tells them to pull their heads in, you gotta go up the ladder.

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The issue is that if you buy a permit on line, the final decision is up to the local ranger. If all he uses to make a judgement is the sticker or badge on the tailgate that reads 4WD or AWD as the case may be, a switch won't matter.


My contention is that there needs to be a more rational standard that does not depend on local or individual interpretation. I can understand them wanting to exclude vehicles whose 4 Wheel Drive system drops its lunch after 5 minutes effort in soft sand and reverts to 2WD but to tar us all with the same brush is discriminatory in my book.

Kevin said:

My Foz must be 4WD as it has a centre diff lock and I can change to 2WD by inserting a fuse in the FWD slot so to be more convincing I could just wire that to a switch that says "2WD/4WD" then all would be OK! :iconwink:

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Perhaps install a "4WD" badge and, yes, your contention is fully understood.


For those interested, the MC definition from here https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2012C00326/Html/Text#_Toc326158540 is:
4.3.3. OFF-ROAD PASSENGER VEHICLE (MC)

A passenger vehicle having up to 9 seating positions, including that of the driver and being designed with special features for off-road operation. A vehicle with special features for off-road operation is a vehicle that:

(a) Unless otherwise ‘Approved‘ has 4 wheel drive; and

(b) has at least 4 of the following 5 characteristics calculated when the vehicle is at its ‘Unladen Mass‘ on a level surface, with the front wheels parallel to the vehicle’s longitudinal centreline, and the tyres inflated to the ‘Manufacturer‘s’ recommended pressure:

(i) ‘Approach Angle‘ of not less than 28 degrees;

(ii) ‘Breakover Angle‘ of not less than 14 degrees;

(iii) ‘Departure Angle‘ of not less than 20 degrees;

(iv) ‘Running Clearance‘ of not less than 200 mm;

(v) ‘Front Axle Clearance‘, ‘Rear Axle Clearance‘ or ‘Suspension Clearance‘ of not less than 175 mm each.