OFFROADSUBARUS.com

Go Back   OFFROADSUBARUS.com > Technical Forums > Transmission and Driveline

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 4th June 2014, 07:37 AM
Dedman's Avatar
Dedman Dedman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Victoria Australia
Posts: 699
Dedman is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by taza View Post
I tried that. Came up with a half decent design. Thr cost of manufacturing one wasn't worth it in the end. I scrapped the idea and went with LSD's.
Subaru's arent made to be rock crawlers. Lockers would work well but would get them into more trouble just bresking other weak components on the vehicle.
I disagree, a locker allows you to slow down and drive more carefully on the same terrain, crawl instead of bash your way through.

I have actually made the locking diff already, just need to find time to design the actuator and test it. The is a very very very high probability that it is not strong enough but I will let you all know when I get that far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NachaLuva View Post
Plus you may be able to use the SF 1st gear so you will still get the better synchros.
1st gear and reverse are the worst gears to try swap as the smaller gear is part of the input shaft meaning you have to swap the whole thing.
Im not all that fussed about better synchros as mine work fine for the most part
__________________
99 Foz 2.0 n/a 50mm Strut, Kings, 9000lbs Winch, Offroad Bumper, Custom Sumpguard, Snorkel
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 4th June 2014, 08:33 AM
taza's Avatar
taza taza is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,837
taza is on a distinguished road
Default

Yes you can crawl but a locker puts more stress on your diff, gearbox and whole drivetrain.
Having been offroad with numerous people with L-Series' s that have welded diffs. Yes they go amazing offroad and can go almost anywhere the next weekest link is the CV's. They snap easy. Ive even seen where a welded diff caused 9 of the teeth on 2nd gear to snap off.

Go for it though. Keen to see a locker in action. If money is no issue you can buy a navars R180 locker and fit it into an STI, r180 rear diff. It's been done but in the end all comes down to money.
__________________
Current vehicle - 84 MY Wagon EJ22 4 Speed
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 4th June 2014, 09:37 AM
Dedman's Avatar
Dedman Dedman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Victoria Australia
Posts: 699
Dedman is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by taza View Post
Yes you can crawl but a locker puts more stress on your diff, gearbox and whole drivetrain.
Having been offroad with numerous people with L-Series' s that have welded diffs. Yes they go amazing offroad and can go almost anywhere the next weekest link is the CV's. They snap easy. Ive even seen where a welded diff caused 9 of the teeth on 2nd gear to snap off.

Go for it though. Keen to see a locker in action. If money is no issue you can buy a navars R180 locker and fit it into an STI, r180 rear diff. It's been done but in the end all comes down to money.
The question is if the damage was a result of a locked diff when a locked diff was required or the effects of a diff being locked when not required. Given 2nd gear was damaged I am guessing it was the latter in this case.

I would love a commercial locker but the price is a bit of an issue. I also believe it is not a remotely simple process fitting a locker in to the r180 diff.
__________________
99 Foz 2.0 n/a 50mm Strut, Kings, 9000lbs Winch, Offroad Bumper, Custom Sumpguard, Snorkel
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 4th June 2014, 06:20 PM
Rally's Avatar
Rally Rally is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,217
Rally is on a distinguished road
Default

Well, I think it was clever and I guess to some extent it is secret, or as it is known these days, intellectual property. Trial and error, R&D or whatever it is,
if the bloke who develops something goes to that sort of effort and expense, why would he tell the world. I just gave him the bits and he did what he did and the result has been outstanding. I really don't know why you'd go to all the trouble of trying to put locker diffs in (especially in the front), but then again everyone has a different purpose for their car and that's fair enough. I think you need to really appreciate the effect locked and plated front diffs will have on the steering.

I had a fault recently with my DCCD controller in my WRX, whereby the auto function failed and I had to use full manual control. Just by locking the centre diff, I could hardly turn the car and I had to manhandle the thing just to swerve through witches hats. The car had fantastic grip, but the car would just not turn. So think what a locked front diff would do to your steering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NachaLuva View Post
Taza, are you sure the STi 6spd front diff fits a dual range? I thought thats what Rally has & he needed some clever (& secret, lol) work to get it to fit. It would be great if it did

Dedman, will be great to see if you can design a locker. There'll be many people very interested in that!
__________________
SG 1.447 DCCD, 2.5T helical f&r R180
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 4th June 2014, 07:30 PM
Dedman's Avatar
Dedman Dedman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Victoria Australia
Posts: 699
Dedman is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally View Post
So think what a locked front diff would do to your steering.
Yes I agree completely. Front locked diff = essentially no steering at all. It would really only be for a few seconds here and there to overcome airborne wheels when crawling. Locked rear diff on the other hand is very manageable in terms of steering.
__________________
99 Foz 2.0 n/a 50mm Strut, Kings, 9000lbs Winch, Offroad Bumper, Custom Sumpguard, Snorkel
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 4th June 2014, 09:37 PM
Venom Venom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 630
Venom is on a distinguished road
Default

I think a locking front would be ideal. If it's your daily driver there's no need for a front lsd on the road in an awd car. Your talking activating it on the odd climb or mud hole when needed. Maybe a fraction of the time spent driving the vehicle. In those circumstances your also rarely going to be doing full lock turning. Also think comparing a welded diff to a locker in terms of durability isn't a fair comparison. A welded diff is punishing the cvs and driveshafts fulltime, weaking the cvs and cv joints over time. Them yes at a time when they're under more extreme stress they let go. the whole idwa of a selectable locker is its easy on the drivetrain the 99.9% of the time its not needed.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 4th June 2014, 11:34 PM
Rally's Avatar
Rally Rally is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,217
Rally is on a distinguished road
Default

That's all true. But the phantom switchable locker is, as far as I know, MIA. Or has one been released for the front of a Subaru? If so, then that would be the bee's knees. Otherwise, use the factory STI front diff and make do. Having bent suspension arms in my previous offroading, I am not sure that I'd want my Subaru taken any further offroad than where I have managed to take mine- I was not exactly thrashing the thing. And i was never wanting for grip. Still, for anyone wanting to go to that nth degree, it will be a case of diminishing returns as far as bang for your buck goes. I still chuckle when I think of the big 4WD's I have shown up with the diff set up I have. None of those occassions was on the surface Subaru's tend to beat the big 4WD's- sand. One was on a slippery, muddy uphill section (with me on road tyres towing a camper trailer!) and the other 2 were on a rocky up hill track.
__________________
SG 1.447 DCCD, 2.5T helical f&r R180
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 5th June 2014, 12:03 AM
Dedman's Avatar
Dedman Dedman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Victoria Australia
Posts: 699
Dedman is on a distinguished road
Default

My thoughts exactly Venom.
__________________
99 Foz 2.0 n/a 50mm Strut, Kings, 9000lbs Winch, Offroad Bumper, Custom Sumpguard, Snorkel
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 5th June 2014, 09:21 AM
NachaLuva's Avatar
NachaLuva NachaLuva is offline
Senior Member / Product Developer
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SE Melbourne
Posts: 5,275
NachaLuva is on a distinguished road
Default

I've found a decent plated rear diff has helped, but whenever I lift a front wheel I lose all momentum. I also worry about the wildly spinning wheel coming down on the ground & suddenly getting grip, which obviously is how you snap an axle or CV. A locked front diff would stop that. Used only when needed, it would actually protect the driveline.

I also like Rallys setup, giving good grip & driveability all the time.

Dedman, can your locking diff be used with a plated diff or does it replace the centre?
__________________
SUBIELIFTOZ, QUALITY LIFT KITS FOR SUBARUS
1" & 2" lift kits; custom lift kits; all models
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 5th June 2014, 10:03 AM
Dedman's Avatar
Dedman Dedman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Victoria Australia
Posts: 699
Dedman is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NachaLuva View Post
Dedman, can your locking diff be used with a plated diff or does it replace the centre?
Replaces the centre. But don't count your chickens before they hatch! It is most likely going to eventuate to nothing.
__________________
99 Foz 2.0 n/a 50mm Strut, Kings, 9000lbs Winch, Offroad Bumper, Custom Sumpguard, Snorkel
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
gearbox build, gearbox lubrication, sf gearbox rebuild

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 04:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.