1:1.19 is faux range

stilson

stilson

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I had my first little off road jaunt today: a 150m 30deg climb with fist sized salt and pepper rock surface near Iron Knob in outback SA.

I found in 1st low I had to carry more speed than I would have liked to keep the engine in a happy power curve.

Then when I slowed for a very rocky technical section I ran out of steam.

When I tried to reverse down I had to fight the hill hold and when I'd let the clutch out to the point where it would disengage, I'd be fired down the hill faster than I felt safe with.

I'm sure I'll get a better technique with practice but it still seams the low ratio is aimed more at caravan towers than serious offroaders.

What are your thoughts?
 
Alot of people disconnect the hillholder to avoid that problem in a situation like you were in.

1.19 is not low enough for any half serious climb. It might get you up if you have enough momentum, but if you lose traction and stop it can't get you going again.

Really need 1.447 or 1.59 to take hills with confidence.
 
The 1.19 in my outback i agree is all but useless. Id really like the 1.447 from the forester. Now thats a decent low range.
 
Yeah I'd love the 1.447, if I feel the turbo kick in it's fine but not much use otherwise though I do find it much nicer to use when driving around dirt tracks and I guess mine would be around 1.25 having the 4.44 crown wheel and pinion instead of the 3.9. Hopefully change it one day.
 
Gidday ST

stilson said:
oh sweet, do you know how?

Could I have a switch to turn it on and off?

Cheers, Seanan.
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It takes a bit of getting used to; using either the engine braking and the brakes; or just the engine braking without using the brakes; or just the brakes without the engine braking/clutch.

What one has to avoid is simultaneously using both brakes and clutch, coz THAT is what makes the hill-holder engage ... :rolleyessarcastic: :shake: ...

It has taken me a couple of months to feel comfortable with the different driving style required, and have put that to good use on the Noojee expedition, where I had to back down the hill for a bit. Tricky though.

It sure is different from a car that does not have the hill-holder system!

Ditto the ABS brakes in many off-road situations.

BTW, I find that Roo2 has plenty of grunt to stop and start again in LR. Suspect that much of it goes to technique, AND the very specific circumstances, rather than the LR ratio.
Having seen Venom's H6 well and truly bogged ... In some circumstances, even having 2:1 LR wouldn't help much, just IMHO, of course.

There is also the question of whether the drive shafts and CV joints in our model Foresters could handle the extra torque from the 2.5 L donk if they had the 1.447:1 (??) LR of earlier models. Both of these are far smaller than the ones in Roo1 (1993 Impreza), for example.
 
Davidov said:
The 1.19 in my outback i agree is all but useless....
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I find it quite useful in some circumstances, none of which relate to steep gravely hills. I call it 'medium range'.

Firstly it gives me an extra gear below 1st for when I'm in stop start traffic on steepish hills - eg Whitehorse Road going up to Burke Rd (Deepdene, Melbourne) in the morning peak hour, or the ramp up to the carpark in Doncaster Shoppingtown on a Saturday morning. It makes for easy uphill starts and is more gentle on the clutch.

Secondly, in slow, winding country roads (such as the Barry Way ) medium range closes the gaps between gears, giving me a ratio for all occasions.
 
Ratbag said:
What one has to avoid is simultaneously using both brakes and clutch, coz THAT is what makes the hill-holder engage ... :rolleyessarcastic: :shake: ...
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I was sitting nose up on the hill with the brakes on and used the clutch to engage reverse. To get the hill hold to disengage I had to let the clutch out to beyond the point at which it engages.

Lower ratios would mean the effect of the engine braking would be greater and would occur at a lower speed.

Sans hill hold would allow you to reach =idle speed and then engage the clutch so the engine would slow you only rather than accelerate you downhill then try to catch you.

I'm not certain but it felt like the ecu detected a stall coming as I fought the clutch against the brakes and opened the throttle.

I'm looking forward to getting home and unloading the rooftop tent, missus and baby and having a good play around in the hills.
 
I agree grump, I used a lot of "medium range" in Sydney and Melbourne. (not so much in Adelaide as I wanted to get out as quickly as possible!) Jokes!
 
My Forester has a decent low range(1.447.1) with decent diffs(4.11) but the stock 2.0l doesn't have the torque or the grunt to hold under 3000rpm.
But when the supercharger goes on that shouldn't be an issue :twisted:

Ratbag said:
There is also the question of whether the drive shafts and CV joints in our model Foresters could handle the extra torque from the 2.5 L donk if they had the 1.447:1 (??) LR of earlier models. Both of these are far smaller than the ones in Roo1 (1993 Impreza), for example.
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The answer would be yes. Some people run turbos and H6's with 1.59 low ranges.
 
stilson said:
I'm looking forward to getting home and unloading the rooftop tent, missus and baby and having a good play around in the hills.
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I'm sure you are! lol.

Hope you're enjoying the trip back, how do you & the Mrs like it so far? (apart from the medium range of course lol)

taza said:
My Forester has a decent low range(1.447.1) with decent diffs(4.11) but the stock 2.0l doesn't have the torque or the grunt to hold under 3000rpm.
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+1. With 1.447:1 LR, I have been able to crawl up some steep hills :biggrin:, others I've needed more momentum :twisted:. Some others not made it lol :cry:

But when the supercharger goes on that shouldn't be an issue :twisted:
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:twisted::monkeydance::bananagunner:

The answer would be yes. Some people run turbos and H6's with 1.59 low ranges.
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Dulagarl said:
I can think of two such H6's.
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& I've had the pleasure of watching both in action, watching both get bogged haha, & even snatched out both hehehehe (in my lil stock standard EJ20J) :rotfl:
 
stilson said:
oh sweet, do you know how?

Could I have a switch to turn it on and off?

Cheers, Seanan.
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Its a second cable that runs onto the clutch fork which you can disconnect. It's never been hooked up on my Liberty and i don't miss it.
 
Thanks Venom, I'll have a crawl underneath when I get home.

NL, the trip is going great, 1200ks today brought us from Ceduna to Noresman, 200ks of offroad tomorrow morning should have us at wave rock and then home to Perth.

I love the forester (I'll stop short of calling it a fox to avoid conflict) and im looking forward to giving it a few more mods just to personalise it a little more.

So far in the 2 weeks since we met I've added a bullbar, sump guard, diff guard, UHF, gps, engle, rooftop tent, awning and strutbrace.

Next on the list are headers, 1" blocks, rear sway bar/links/disconnects, driving lights, ATs, hitch and real low range.

Then when the essentials are taken care of I can look at creature comforts like stereo gear and extra 12V sockets.
 
stilson said:
Could I have a switch to turn it on and off?
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Unfortunately you can't have both worlds! But you can adjust it to disengage lower in the clutch pedal action - but if you go too far it might not engage at all.

Venom said:
Its a second cable that runs onto the clutch fork which you can disconnect. It's never been hooked up on my Liberty and i don't miss it.
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stilson said:
Thanks Venom, I'll have a crawl underneath when I get home.
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Just lift the bonnet, if it's still in the same place as the L series you'll find it on the chassis rail at the base of the strut tower on the passenger's side. Or just follow the second cable on your clutch ;)

stilson said:
NL, the trip is going great, 1200ks today brought us from Ceduna to Noresman, 200ks of offroad tomorrow morning should have us at wave rock and then home to Perth.
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Sounds like an awesome trip! I can't wait to do that drive again. Dulagarl has a plan to do the 1300km leg that's all offroad with one fuel stop in the middle-ish area! That'd be a good bit of fun!

Cheers

Bennie
 
The other thing I should have mentioned - it's a good thing that you've even got a low range! Our US members are very envious of us simply for the EJ low range!!

Cheers

Bennie
 
El_Freddo said:
Sounds like an awesome trip! I can't wait to do that drive again. Dulagarl has a plan to do the 1300km leg that's all offroad with one fuel stop in the middle-ish area! That'd be a good bit of fun!

Cheers

Bennie
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sounds good, my offroad leg turned out to be 300ks of freshly graded mining road, we made good time and I got to experience to car at high speed through gravel corners (excellent I might add) but I was looking forward to some real 4WD action.

Fun trip but glad to sleeping in my own bed tonight.

Cheers,

Seanan.
 
stilson said:
NL, the trip is going great, 1200ks today brought us from Ceduna to Noresman, 200ks of offroad tomorrow morning should have us at wave rock and then home to Perth.
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I would LOVE to go to Wave Rock :monkeydance:

So far in the 2 weeks since we met I've added a bullbar, sump guard, diff guard, UHF, gps, engle, rooftop tent, awning and strutbrace.

Next on the list are headers, 1" blocks, rear sway bar/links/disconnects, driving lights, ATs, hitch and real low range.

Then when the essentials are taken care of I can look at creature comforts like stereo gear and extra 12V sockets.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a plan :cool:

El_Freddo said:
The other thing I should have mentioned - it's a good thing that you've even got a low range! Our US members are very envious of us simply for the EJ low range!!
Click to expand...

stilson said:
I know, sorry, I feel like a spoiled brat now. .(;
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No need to feel like a spoilt brat...We should have everything we want on on Foresters, no matter what we call em! lol :biggrin:
 
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