CVT and Off-road

I just went over 100,000 km in my NA SJ Forester a week or so ago. I have had no issues whatsoever with the CVT and have no complaints. I am not a CVT fan as such but I have never really noticed much difference between it and other auto transmissions that I have driven.

I am either not critical enough or Subaru has produced a good CVT, or a combination of the two.
 
I've had a Mitsubishi with CVT and I've driven 2 Subarus with it, one of them a Forester. Both were OK for CVTs. It is acknowledged that Subaru makes one of the best on the market.

I also drove a Volvo with a DAF CVT in 1976 and that was something else altogether. I guess that experience turned me against the concept of an engine that holds constant revs while the car accelerates. It just seems wrong.
 
Hi Tweaksta.

Yes I did and it went up Big Red including the harder tracks on the left.

Check out https://www.facebook.com/groups/subarusoffroadaustralia/search/?query=big%20red&epa=SEARCH_BOX

You will see lots of pictures and posts here if you wanted to have a look. There is a daily trip report if you look at various posts around the time but this link will show you Big Red.

The corrugations were shocking in places (no pun intended!) and I thought I had worn the shocks out as a few days after I got home I got a lot of noise on the highway etc when going over certain sections of highway. It turned out that the front right bush was very worn. As for the trip itself the car performed extremely well and didn't come close to get stuck. The only time I had to have another go was on the tracks on the the left at Big Red. I let the tyres down further and then it went up very easily.
 
That's awesome to know. Since there will soon be no XTs I might be tempted to get an SJ XT, but for a while there I was convinced that the CVT made it considerably tamer. But in all seriousness if it can do the Simpson then it's probably as capable as I'll ever need.

My shortlist (in a semi preferenced order):
SH Forester XT Manual
SH Forester S-Edition 5 Speed STi Auto
SJ Forester XT CVT
SJ Forester Diesel CVT
Pajero Sport
NT or NX Pajero.
(I always dream about - but would never buy a Range Rover Sport, Discovery 3 or 4, Jeep Grand Cherokee - I'd prefer to make it home).
 
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The other interesting thing re the Simpson Desert trip is that my SJ just had stock suspension. There were about 6 vehicles and most of them had beefed up suspension of some sort. The shock absorbers still seem to be ok so I will get a bit more life out of them yet. So, its probably a good idea to beef up the suspension but not absolutely necessary it seems.

I went slowish in places and also travelled at quite high speed at times to smooth things out and also test out the various theories I had read about. It was definitely smoother at higher speeds even though most of the corrugations were dealt with at more sedate speeds given the convoy.
 
Re the CVT being capable (at least capable enough!) here are a feew extra links.



The first two links are re Ngkala Rocks on Fraser Island. First link are photos of track with an Outback going up the sand and takng a sharp right. There is a video somewhere of my Forester doing the same right hand turn and heading up the track. The seond link is a number of Subarus (two with CVT including an XT) returning on the same track. We were there for a week and there are plenty of videos and photos with a trip report if you wanted to check it out further,



https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10211606464771211&set=pcb.739201596204617&type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/tigg3r/videos/10154790173515846/?query=fraser island&epa=SEARCH_BOX






These links might be of interest re the Victorian High Country. I got the Forester just to be able to go up the beach so I was impressed that it was still up to the job on this trip as well. Second link is re X-Mode. There are some other videos posted at the time that show steep climbs etc. It was part of a trip with the Subaru 4WD Club of Victoria.



https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10212449775333448&set=pcb.810592732398836&type=3&theater


https://www.facebook.com/groups/subarusoffroadaustralia/search/?query=trig track&epa=SEARCH_BOX
 
Thanks for the 1st-hand experience @Subaru Man.

To drive a CVT from a dealer to get the driving feel is one thing, taking it off-road is another. Keep us updated. Cheers.
 
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Shall do ABFoz. I plan on keeping this vehicle for the long-term and will no doubt do some more adventures. 99% of its time is spent on bitumen for work purposes which is why I got the Forester. The best of all worlds to me.
 
I just found this recently and I think the Deep Snow/Mud X-mode setting is impressive as the test car has standard road tyres.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U4WLc2V-LM"]2019 Forester Dual X-Mode Explained and Real World Test #drivingsportstv - YouTube[/ame]

Even the regular X-mode did well. Imagine if proper tyres are fitted.

Here is the obligatory diagonal test from Car Question. I think the CVT does well. It is a bit unconventional because most people, like myself, are used to the directness of older cars with the manual to more manual power train but I think that with such traction control technology, the driver must not freak out and let the system work.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ4aeC2Uvm8"]Subaru Ascent: AWD diagonal test in DEEP SNOW! I'ts X-MODE time! - YouTube[/ame]


I think with the reviews of newer Subarus, the channels, other than the one that demonstrated the Gold Mine Hill test, can be good alternatives as they show strengths and weaknesses, not just the hate for newer technology.
 
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Where I live the snow never gets that deep, so unfortunately this particular video is hard to put into perspective. I did though hear the slipping, albeit to a lesser extent, that halted Alex’s car when he attempted our little test track. I wonder if this new car would have performed the same as Alex’s car on the same track. Only one way to find out.
 
I don't mind the new technology. I don't like the red stripes or the new tail lights though even if they have no impact on their on or off road ability.



I went and had a sit in one of these and they are a nice place to be. My 2016 SJ is nice inside but these are a step up again.
 
Update.

My sister's partner's 2008 S-GT went in for an airbag and secondary air pump recall, was given a 2019 Forester as a loaner vehicle and was somewhat impressed by the performance of the CVT, even though he is the usual manual gearbox only sort of person. He said that he felt proper power delivery to the wheels and did not feel like it was a CVT at all. I guess Subaru engineers and designers have been doing big strides with their tech to be able to convince a car guy to like it.

I am somewhat curious about the stepped shift points. Some people say they are for marketing purposes only. I am thinking it's for a bit more control to the driver.

I remember seeing stepped shifting in other CVTs before and they behaved somewhat like a 1970's auto transmission when shifting. I am surprised by how quicker the sort of shifting is nowadays.



The sort of shifting with the JDM WRX S4, which is somewhat popular now in Japan, is even more aggressive like in the video below (Please skip to 16:00 for the actual track run):
It is still a WRX and is below the STI in terms of specs but the FA20 that it has produces 300hp vs 264hp to 270hp outside of Japan. I am fascinated by how un-rubber-bandy the behaviour of the CVT transmission is in that video.
 
So whats with all that talk about cvt and it stalling car in some hard conditions or steep hill or some hard to climb sruff where you push gas but nothing happens cvt just whines and thats it?
Could it be still that normal tires that have less grip and can slip is better for subaru awd then much grippy tires ? Maybe false on that, just for that x mode system to work proper it must let some tires to start slip then it will work. Oposite to if you put very grippy heavy tires and it has all grip in the world but because it wont slip wheel it will kinda stall car.. saw couple things on some videos where you need to go slow and it cant.
Could maybe 2 pedals method work on cvt or its bad fo it, its when you keep on brake same time raising some revs with gas pedal and then releasing brake.
 
@scalman I have a SJ and have encountered all different scenarios you thinking here:
a. Stall: yes SJ model or newer 14-18 will stall but i think it is more of a function of computer aka ECU or TCU that cut power generate from engine/tranny to wheels. I think Subaru Engineer is trying to do this to protect their weak CVT from excessive force/torque. When does it happens?
1. Steep incline and your wheels lost tractions - spin
2. steep incline and encounter an obstacles like rock or deep rutted hole. Either of this required more power or causing lost of traction like in #1.
3. Steep long incline (when it is really steep) and you don't have enough momentum or have to stop mid-climb.
4. Steep long incline in sliding gravel: similar to #1 causing of losing traction after mid climb.

b. 2-pedal method: This works great not only subie but also for most modern AWD system with Torque vectoring (brake based type). Even with Xmode and due to open-diff, i experienced few times where car just spinned wheel aka lost traction and trigger #1 thus causing the stall. Lately (before my locker), i've been using this 2-pedals method with great results. It really helps to trigger the brake early on and help transfer torque to wheel with traction via the torque vectoring and allow me to get out..

3. xmode v1 (prior to 2019 Dual Xmode): it works good most of the time.. However, it is not a solution to all. I hope to find more information what xmode does to center diff aka even distribute of power front/rear?

4. Rear locker: in all scenarios earlier, I had to use a lot of momentum which famous in subie world to tackle an obstacles. However, it easily damages vehicles and unsafe when the trail is narrow with cliff. Since i have my rear locker, i found my SJ is more well-connected to ground aka tractions, and not having to use a lot of momentum as before. I have a turbo version thus able to keep it in 1st or 2nd and slowly go up steepy gravel hill (car will slide down on its own even in park), or rocky surface. I knew the differences because i would have to floor it before in similar scenario and let momentum to carry me home. :)
Another note, with this rear lock my XT SJ seems to prefer distribute power to rear quicker and more often than before as it recognizes more traction there. I wish I have more proof but it seems to transfer more power to rear when climb via my ActiveTorq monitoring app.
 
It would be interesting to know how the SK performs with the Dual X-mode, considering that up the engine and transmission have 80% re-engineered parts. Some people are saying that it has more aggressive tuning but we need more first-hand input regarding this.
 
ABFoz said:
It would be interesting to know how the SK performs with the Dual X-mode, considering that up the engine and transmission have 80% re-engineered parts. Some people are saying that it has more aggressive tuning but we need more first-hand input regarding this.
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That's true. I witnessed 19 fozie sport handle rutted much better. It seems the software is updated. However, traction is still weakness as it is not true locker. Torque vectoring is still reactive. It seems on newer cvt SK they have more confident thus keeping power to wheels in deep sand/mud mode rather than cut it too soon.

Older SJ I'll say off with traction control or use locker.
 
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