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Locker

Link doesn't work for me either could you re post?

I just figure it will be a bit like this.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5FX3K3h1d0"]Subaru Forester - Diagonal Spin Test - YouTube[/ame]
Yes being proactive a locker will be far more usable then the dual handbrake system as it allows you to use momentum along with the better traction system. However I don't think the 4Kg will be able to get the required quantity of torque transfer across to actually get started on a steep up hill with out any momentum assistance, as shown in video. Where as with twin lockers you would. So single rear locker is an improvement, but just not getting the most out of it.

But I am making this comment without actually watching your video, so might be wrong...
 
From my experience, a 5MT with a 4kg center is too weak on a steep hill with one front wheel in the air, nearly 100% of the torque will be sent to that wheel.

A rear locker is only effective in combination with a DCCD and probably also with 12kg or 20kg center with lesser results.
 
You need a decent centre diff for the rear locker to work.
 
When talking about fr/rr torque split, need to mention whether it's auto or manual & which auto, they all work differently. The VTD auto can lock up its centre when the hold button is pushed in 1st or 2nd. The MPT auto can also lock its centre but only with the centre diff lock mod. The manual viscous centre diff should still send torque to both ends if working properly.
Ahh yes. I do tend to forget about automatics. the situation I discussed assumed manual transmission, with VCD.
 
Link doesn't work for me either could you re post?

Link fixed, pls tell me if it isn't
https://youtu.be/odDwsvCsqRI

I just figure it will be a bit like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5FX3K3h1d0

I still don't get why at 0.23 he applies the RR hanbrake & doesn't climb, then at 0.33 he does something else & it does climb. What does he do?

I think this is also an auto, which is front biased. It can also have the centre diff lock mod done. Bluefoz's 2nd Foz is manual

So single rear locker is an improvement, but just not getting the most out of it.

I agree, it will still work but a locking centre will be more effective
 
G'day hirdse

Yes, that's a R160. All Subarus run a R160 rear diff except the later WRX STIs

That thread Kevin showed is for a R180 conversion & locker. It's very expensive, extremely complicated & still hasn't got it working yet. Total cost for this will be around $5k

This is the R160 locker thread, check out the Facebook links for the official R160 locker page. Don't forget to fill out the survey!

https://offroadsubarus.com/showthread.php?p=99773#post99773

No, it’s not cheap but it is a much stronger set up. It’s not complicated at all. It’s an R180 Subaru rear end instead of an R160. It’s not working yet but it’s a lot closer to working than the R160 locker. The only thing now stopping us proving that it works has been an issue with the centre diff.
 
It’s not complicated at all. It’s an R180 Subaru rear end instead of an R160.

Exactly, complete R180 rear end, that's very complicated!!

What is needed is a simple bolt in locker. A straight swap using the existing diff, axles, hubs, brakes, etc. You had to swap all of those. Well done for doing so but it's not what most people want.
 
Mate, the engine conversion was complicated. This was simple.
 
haha a turbo conversion is beyond complicated as you found out :lol:

Seriously though, don't say a R180 conversion is simple, that's misleading. If it was simple you would have had it done in a day, not the several months you've been going at it. Changing wheels is simple. Changing a radio is a little less simple. Fitting driving lights or a lightbar is even less simple, thanks to our negative switching.

Fitting a R160 locker into an existing R160 diff is not simple & is beyond many people's ability. What you have done is several orders of difficulty beyond that! Please don't say a R180 conversion is simple, that's very misleading & simply not true!!

Next you'll be saying space travel is simple lol :rolleyes:
 
Converting to r180 is simple. The locker is more involved, but no more so than if it were an r160. Harrop have looked at doing an r160 and said it’s too small and too weak.
 
Dude, I was the one who brought my diffs to Harrop for them to look at! No, they never said it was too weak!! It was too small for the actuator they had.

And no, converting to a R180 diff is neither simple nor cheap.

Tony, please get off the drugs. Next you'll be telling us the world is flat :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
 
Either way - what with the potential cost of a locker and ample availability of traction control in later models I see very little market for a rear diff locker for Subies. I could trade my Foz in for a diff locker and all I would have left is the diff locker! :lol:
 
Kevin is right. The market for production r160 lockers with the advent of x mode is small already and diminishing. My understanding is since I started my project is that Harrop looked again at doing the r160 and found that the housing, crown wheel and axles are all too small and too weak. Everything would have to be made in miniature to fit, but you would still have issues with strength and I imagine companies like a Harrop have their reputation to consider. The potential sales versus risk to their reputation and with the costs involved make it non viable. Designing and building such a small locker- now that would be complicated.
 
Tony, strength has nothing to do with it, they simply don't have the parts to fit. You've been misinformed.

As for the housing & crown wheel being too small & weak, they can & regularly do take some serious abuse. No worries there. The only issue is the axles

Kevin, we want to keep the cost of a locker at around $1000 or at least under $1500 at the most. That's pretty reasonable for the massive gains it provides. Around half the cost of a bullbar.

That's why a R180 conversion is so unpopular, it's too expensive & complicated to do. Most people want a simple locker to fit straight into their existing diff with the least amount of modification.

Traction control is actually a disadvantage offroad, it's best to turn that off & leave VDC on. VDC is a great system, & XMode even better, but they are reactive. They react once you have lost grip. A locker is proactive, helping you to keep the grip in the first place.
 
I'll just stick with my centre lock up and rear LSD. ;-)

By "traction" control I meant anything in general that helps maintain grip and/or keeps wheels turning. For example when offroad in my Triton I turn stability control off and leave its version of traction control on (not that I get a choice as there is no switch!)
 
Different manufacturers name traction control and stability control the opposite ways around to each other and everyone has there own acronym...

Big advantage to electronic traction aids is while you are on diagonal wheels it can get power to both the wheels with traction. Rear locker only helps with rear. So electronic traction aids have double the traction in those situations.

Link fixed, pls tell me if it isn't
https://youtu.be/odDwsvCsqRI
This is actually quite impressive, wouldn't have thought my centre LSD actually had enough torque transfer to spin a wheel in that terrain. But if I had a locker I'd rather put it in an auto with lock up mod.
 
As indicated in other threads, my R180 locker now works and works exceptionally well. There were issues getting it to work, but that was because no one had ever done this before. I like doing things properly. I don't want to have failures such as axles etc if it can be avoided. For this reason we went for a full R180 rear end because in doing so I used the strongest readily available Subaru parts. While it may be possible to do a hybrid set up with an R180 centre and and R160 hubs, this introduced a weak link into the equation I wished to avoid. Am I being overly cautious? Maybe, but I don't wish to find out in the middle of nowhere. As for getting a locker for the R160 diff, who knows. I still don't think it's commercially viable, and is becoming less so year on year. Some people have been waiting a lot longer for the Second Coming and still haven't given up hope.
 
Going the whole R180 rear sounds like the only logical thing to do, but your rear setup is probably worth the same amount as my car.
 
^ I tend to agree but we'll never know unless "someone" (hint hint) puts a price on it! :iconwink:
 
Sorry Kevin, treading the fine line of not wanting to break forum rules. I can't give a price because I don't know what the price is. Dave, who did all the work and is the brains behind it all, would be the person to ask. There is more than one price, though. If you already have a centre diff lock, then that is one less major thing to pay for. Then there is the option of full R180 or R180/R160 Hybrid. To give you an idea. The diff locker itself retails at $1750. A DCCD if you can find one could cost $1200 to $1500 or more. They are very hard to find these days. A controller costs $300 to $500, some are more. Axles I think are up to $500. Hubs , not sure but maybe $300. Callipers maybe $100, discs $400, pads $100. Then there are the costs of R&R the gearbox and diff, and the work done to machine everything. There might be other costs as well. It's definitely not a cheap exercise.
 
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