OFFROADSUBARUS.COM

Go Back   OFFROADSUBARUS.COM > Technical Forums > Mods, Insurance, Local Compliance & you

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 17th May 2014, 09:34 PM
Ratbag's Avatar
Ratbag Ratbag is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Bayside, Melbourne, Vic
Year: MY06, MY10
Model: Forester SG & SH
Transmission: 5MT/DR & 4EAT Sports
Posts: 6,219
Ratbag is on a distinguished road
Default Sump Guard Australian Design Rule Compliance (ADR)

Do keep in mind that a sump guard is supposed to be air bag and pre-tensioner seat belt compliant if your car is fitted with them, as per the ADRs.

If it does not comply with the ADRs, there could also be insurance complications (or your insurance policy could be voided by your insurer ... ), as well as being technically unroadworthy, which voids your government compulsory third party personal injury insurance.

No one wants to be in any accident. We all hope not to be. However, it can happen (it does happen to someone every few minutes ... ), and when/if it does, one doesn't need the added financial burden of being uninsured all round ... .

Last edited by Kevin; 19th May 2014 at 08:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 17th May 2014, 11:18 PM
hydrowill's Avatar
hydrowill hydrowill is offline
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 201
hydrowill is on a distinguished road
Default

Ratbag I guess it is the risk people take at the end of the day. I could count a well more than a dozen cars on this forum that would not comply and you could times that by 100 for the 4x4 community as a whole.
__________________
H6 Outback 5Sp D/R M/T

Last edited by Kevin; 19th May 2014 at 08:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 17th May 2014, 11:42 PM
Ratbag's Avatar
Ratbag Ratbag is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Bayside, Melbourne, Vic
Year: MY06, MY10
Model: Forester SG & SH
Transmission: 5MT/DR & 4EAT Sports
Posts: 6,219
Ratbag is on a distinguished road
Default

Gidday Will

Yeah, I know, mate.

The bloke who makes the alloy plate ones here is a member at Vic Subarus.

I would prefer one of these myself, but I am too old, and too experienced, to want to spend any of the time left to me fighting with the Police, insurance company, Tax Office, government, etc.

I have done a lot of this in my life with all of the above, and have almost always won. BUT - at a cost ... .

From my Batphone
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 18th May 2014, 12:18 AM
Ratbag's Avatar
Ratbag Ratbag is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Bayside, Melbourne, Vic
Year: MY06, MY10
Model: Forester SG & SH
Transmission: 5MT/DR & 4EAT Sports
Posts: 6,219
Ratbag is on a distinguished road
Default

G'day again Will

Further to my last post, I don't consider myself to be a member of any kind of "It can't happen to me" club, mate.

In fact, quite the contrary, I am only too aware that it can happen to me - whatever that "it" might happen to be ... . I don't think that this applies to winning the lottery though, specially seeing as how I never buy lottery tickets ... .

Seriously though, on the face of it, it appears that this fellow did, and look where it got him at the ripe old age of nearly 36 y.o.



Note the car emblem on the small rock at the right ... .

It not only can happen to us - it does happen to us ...

The ADRs are there to help reduce the chance of it happening to us ...

{shuffle, shuffle puts pulpit away for the moment.}
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 18th May 2014, 08:48 AM
hydrowill's Avatar
hydrowill hydrowill is offline
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 201
hydrowill is on a distinguished road
Default

That is elephant rock on Beacy Emerald road yeah?

I know very well it does happen, at the same time I still feel a lot more confident going into a tree in my Subaru at 60kmh than I do on my dirt bike, bash plate there or not.

It is sad however you can't live thinking you are going to be next, you can do what you can to avoid accidents and improve your chances. At the end of the day it is luck :/
__________________
H6 Outback 5Sp D/R M/T
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 18th May 2014, 09:28 AM
taza's Avatar
taza taza is offline
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,837
taza is on a distinguished road
Default

When your times up, it's up. There is nothing you can do.

Live life to the fullest with no regrets.
__________________
Current vehicle - 84 MY Wagon EJ22 4 Speed
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 18th May 2014, 09:47 AM
Ratbag's Avatar
Ratbag Ratbag is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Bayside, Melbourne, Vic
Year: MY06, MY10
Model: Forester SG & SH
Transmission: 5MT/DR & 4EAT Sports
Posts: 6,219
Ratbag is on a distinguished road
Default

G'day again Will

Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrowill View Post
That is elephant rock on Beacy Emerald road yeah?
Yes, it is.

Quote:
I know very well it does happen, at the same time I still feel a lot more confident going into a tree in my Subaru at 60kmh than I do on my dirt bike, bash plate there or not.
Quite. One of the attractions of Subarus for me has always been their safety, both primary and secondary.

Quote:
It is sad however you can't live thinking you are going to be next,
It is indeed sad if that's what is happening in someone's life.
However, that is not the case AFAIAC.

Quote:
you can do what you can to avoid accidents and improve your chances.
Also agreed. Experience helps both of these things greatly. It is why those of us who are older feel a duty to impart what we can to those who are younger, and usually less experienced on forums like these.
It might just help them to avoid the mistakes we have been lucky to have survived, or those that have killed our friends ...

I am still alive, and unbroken at 65+ y.o.

Not because of fear and trepidation, but because I made the right decisions at certain crucial moments in my (driving) life. Experience helped me to make those decisions correctly. Losing some twelve of the kids (out of 76 ... ) I finished high school with before I was twenty instilled a certain amount of caution in me, I must admit. That was to the good. At least some good came from their otherwise senseless deaths.

Quote:
At the end of the day it is luck :/
Experience and insight improve one's "luck" dramatically, IMNSHO ...
So does being in a couple of serious car "accidents" along the way.

BTW, I would never encourage anyone to be fearful.
Being fearful creates as many, or more, problems that it avoids.
However, I always encourage people to be careful, and to think about what they are doing, and what the ramifications of what they are doing (or going to do ... ) are.

The Roman Emperor, Marcus Aurelius, wrote that "The unexamined life is not worth living". He was not talking about sitting back at the end of one's life and examining it then. He was talking about examining it moment by moment as one is living it. Good advice IMNSHO.

Most of us are only too well aware that life is a sexually transmitted disease, which is invariably fatal. The 'trick' is to put off the final moment as long as is reasonable and obtainable ... .

{shuffle, shuffle - Puts away soapbox again ... .}
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 19th May 2014, 11:38 PM
NachaLuva's Avatar
NachaLuva NachaLuva is offline
Senior Member / Product Developer
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SE Melbourne
Posts: 5,517
NachaLuva is on a distinguished road
Default

IMO, your insurance company would need to prove the sumpguard was unsafe. As long as it sticks to a few design rules, you would be ok.

I cant find the ADRs on sumpguards, but the ones I know are:

* It can't interfere with the airbag sensors
* It must deform in an accident (ie, not be too rigid) & not interfere with the cars designed crumple zones
* The mounting bolts must shear in an accident to allow the engine to slide down under the cabin (this is so the engine doesnt push into the cabin, causing serious injury or death)

Any of the sump guards I've seen would comply with these, the only difference with the SubaXtreme one is its been tested. That doesnt make it safer or more compliant, it just means its been tested....
__________________
SUBIELIFTOZ, QUALITY LIFT KITS FOR SUBARUS
1" & 2" lift kits; custom lift kits; all models
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 20th May 2014, 12:03 AM
Venom Venom is offline
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 635
Venom is on a distinguished road
Default

Pretty sure the onus would be on you to prove it was safe and compliant in the first place. Not up to them to prove it was unsafe in retrospect.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 20th May 2014, 12:16 AM
Ratbag's Avatar
Ratbag Ratbag is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Bayside, Melbourne, Vic
Year: MY06, MY10
Model: Forester SG & SH
Transmission: 5MT/DR & 4EAT Sports
Posts: 6,219
Ratbag is on a distinguished road
Default

^ No.

Compliance certificate = roadworthy.
Absence of compliance certificate = un-roadworthy.

In order to void your policy, all your insurer or the TAC has to do is prove that the vehicle was un-roadworthy for any reason, including the fitment of a non-ADR compliant sump guard (or any other non-complying modification, FTM).

The burden of proof regarding anything that does not comply with the ADRs or associated regulations (etc) rests with the person making the assertion, not the insurer/s. There is a prima facie presumption that if your car is required to comply with the ADRs (etc), and it doesn't, then it is un-roadworthy.

In the absence of a written legal opinion by a lawyer who is an expert in this field of law, I wouldn't even bet a dollar on trying to fight this kind of legal battle. I sure as heck wouldn't bet my entire financial future on it ...

I might add, neither of those insurers will refund any premiums paid by us while the policy was null and void.

You might be able to prove in court that the non-complying item in no way contributed to the accident occurring or was not the proximate cause of the consequential damages, and did not contribute in any way to those consequential damages, but the courts are more than likely to apportion this blame, if they even accept the argument at all. Still leaves one out of pocket for serious costs. Bear in mind that this sort of matter is usually Supreme Court territory because of the value of the claim.

If the court/s finds for the insurer/s (and the plaintiff, via the insurer/s), then you will be liable for the insurer/s costs, the plaintiff's costs and your own costs. You would also be liable for the damages incurred by the other party or parties, both to their vehicle and personal injuries. The plaintiff might even be a passenger in your own vehicle - this is a very common scenario before the courts. Insurance companies and the statutory insurers have very deep pockets, and will usually fight these things to the bitter end IME.

The failure of a vehicle to crumple at the designed rate by even micro-seconds may well have a significant effect on the outcome of a particular accident, either with another vehicle, bicycle, motor bike or pedestrian. Proving that a non-complying item did not have such an effect is all but impossible. There is a presumption at law that it did. This presumption is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to overcome.

I am not a lawyer, but nor am I ignorant of how these things work.

This is the sort of matter that causes a feeding frenzy for the lawyers, and everyone else generally loses ... .
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
adr compliance, insurance, insurers, legal, sump guard

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 06:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.