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  #51  
Unread 10th June 2014, 05:22 AM
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Fazed Fazed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stilson View Post
The XV is the new SF.
Being an ex-XV owner, I think I'd rather own an SF. If I had to buy a new light duty off road vehicle I think I would drive past the Subaru dealer and stop at a Suzuki one.
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  #52  
Unread 10th June 2014, 05:28 AM
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^ XV is much the same size and weight as our SG series II. It only looks smaller ...

Shame about the engine, and the bad blind spot caused by the rake of the windscreen pillars.
A triumph of fashion over purpose?

As for the 2014 OB: it is every bit as 'pregnant' as its immediate predecessors.

Venom:

There might just be a reason why people on fora like this aren't lining up to buy the latest and greatest in common with most other consumer groups. The product no longer fits their purposes, perhaps?

[EDIT] BTW, Fazed, I tend to agree about the Suzuki shop ... [end edit]

Last edited by Ratbag; 10th June 2014 at 05:31 AM. Reason: obvious ...
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  #53  
Unread 10th June 2014, 05:53 AM
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I test drove a few Vitaras before buying the forester. They don't even come close in regards to on-road handling.
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  #54  
Unread 10th June 2014, 05:57 AM
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^ That's what my mate says, ST. And he owns one. Ditto for both on and off road comfort. Perhaps that's the other reason why he likes me to drive him when we go out on photographic expeditions ... .
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  #55  
Unread 10th June 2014, 07:42 AM
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You make some good points. But they do trade on their heritage. And if their goal is to compete in the general market, then they are a long way behind competitors, such as the Mazda 3 and Hyundai i30 vs Impreza, Mazda 6 and Hyundai i40 vs Liberty, CX5 vs Forester. Even the new WRX and zSti fell short of what was promised by way of the concept car. As for the Suzuki, I was referring to the new Grand Vitara coming out next year as being worthy of consideration. So when your products fail to compete with your direct competitors, and your USP's have been removed or mostly removed, then how can anyone be surprised that people are disappointed with the result.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I don't get why people expect/want the off-road capability of the quirky Subarus of the 80's. Honestly it was more of a market pitch and point of difference for a manufacturer who at the time was branching out into new global markets, rathen than than genuine offroad-ability that's predictably fading out over time. For us that has in the past equated to a few useful items which I think incidentally rather than intentionally suit off-roading purposes. That's off-roading in the quirky Subaru world of forums like these, not what 97% of the world considers off-roading either. Then again ask everyone on this forum what off-roading is and getting a different answer every time from every individual. Which on another note makes this forum (to me), a very very skewed opinion on the newer Subarus. Too big, engine too small, too complicated, not capable enough, etc... you mean basically going the same way as every single vehicle on the market? Which is driven by market demand (and trends), government regulation (emissions but probably more important SAFETY) and a desire for better profitability and market share. Where in Subarus market does this forum (and say Ausubaru) fit? A fraction of a percent. How many people on this forum buy the latest model? An even smaller percentage of that already small group. It's like a bunch of blokes at the RSL bemoaning the loss of the good old days. Subaru is a competitor in a global market, they're innovative and successful (that's a one up on Ford and GM), and likely to produce cars that they're target market enjoy and fork out money for. The market for those sort of features I think can be beautifully summed up by the aftermarket parts and accessories business for off-roading Subarus, virtually nonexistent and very boutique.

Now would I like to see a brand new Forester with turbo diesel, 6 speed dual range, factory optional front and rear LSDs, extra clearance and entry/departure angle? Hell yes. Is it going to happen? Never. Because the people that want that aren't buying new Subarus, are you?
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  #56  
Unread 10th June 2014, 08:18 AM
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On topic I like the new Outback look. When it comes time to find a family vehicle I'll definitely be hoping to pick up a new( or newish) model.
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  #57  
Unread 10th June 2014, 03:03 PM
MiddleAgeSubie MiddleAgeSubie is offline
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If you look at the latest trip report,

http://www.offroadsubarus.com/showthread.php?t=5544

you will see a bit of what I am talking about. Video 2 shows the typical shortcomings of older Subarus with no VDC.

Yes, you can get places in those cars but all the videos I have watched, see BlueFox on the Forester forum in rocky terrain, show the same struggles.

On a VDC car, when one encounters traction challenges on loose but otherwise solid and/or undulating terrain, one keeps the foot on the gas, not too much and not too little, until the car moves forward. There is no need to "rock" the car or to "bump" into obstacles hoping to overcome them via inertia. In totally muddy conditions one still needs to carry speed.

It just seems to me that some on this forum do not realize what a jump in capability a well-programmed VDC is. There is no need for front and rear LSD. And if you ever get where you might need old-fashioned true lockers, not weak vLSDs, you may want a Wrangler anyway as the terrain would likely be well too rocky for a Subaru, whether old or new.
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Last edited by MiddleAgeSubie; 10th June 2014 at 03:21 PM.
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  #58  
Unread 11th June 2014, 08:08 AM
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Yes the VDC is a great feature to have, however when conntected to a 6 speed MT that has gear ratios suited to economy rather than off roading, it's kind of pointless. Couple that with the gutless and uninspiring (economical) FB20 motor and you have a dropping your kids off at school car, which is what the masses want. You would think that a gearbox with that many gears would be able to make the first two at some lower range. These are the main reasons I sold the xv and got and older forester. I would easily get to more places in the Forester, simply because of better gear ratios and I'm not burning the clutch out with inclines greater than 5 degrees. Sorry, might be a case of once bitten twice shy, but I will need a lot of convincing before I waste more money on another modern subaru.

Last edited by Fazed; 11th June 2014 at 08:17 AM.
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  #59  
Unread 11th June 2014, 01:23 PM
MiddleAgeSubie MiddleAgeSubie is offline
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Well, if one must have a manual, then you are certainly right. But, a former MT guy myself, I never understood why a manual would be preferable off-road or in urban traffic.

I can always play a bit with my AT when I want though I am too used to stick to like the paddle shifters. We are not talking the old 4 EAT here.

Besides, CVT is the present and no driver can hope to beat a CVT by shifting manually.

Again, I understand that many on this forum have tremendously enjoyed MT, DR, lightweight, small Foresters. It makes a lot of sense.

I also understand that such a vehicle is no longer offered: apparently the XV is only a paper replacement for the early Foz.

But you cannot present this as SUBARU as a whole going backwards. An x-mode CVT Forester is far superior off-road vehicle to the beloved I generation. You do not have to like it. For you personally it may be all gloom and doom. What I am arguing against is presenting that as a generally valid conclusion. And the reason I bother is that the uninitiated may read this thread and draw what would be incorrect conclusions.

Finally, although I am not an engineer, the MT DR seems to me a dead-end in Subaru's case. I recently completed a classic 100-mile road in the company of a Legacy with Aussie Foz MT DR and a 98 Wrangler Sport, simple, stock. The Wrangler is far superior in terms of gear reduction. The Subaru was not able to descend steep slopes on gear alone or to snail uphill with the gravitas of a Wranger in LR. And this is a base model, not a Rubicon. It makes sense for Subaru to focus where it is the leader and to develop a system that virtually eliminates the need for old-fashioned, extremely effective but cumbersome in all sorts of ways LR.
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Last edited by MiddleAgeSubie; 11th June 2014 at 01:39 PM.
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  #60  
Unread 11th June 2014, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratbag View Post
^ XV Shame about the engine, and the bad blind spot caused by the rake of the windscreen pillars.
A triumph of fashion over purpose?
And if you think that is bad, check out the dangerous rear and 3/4 rear vision. It's as bad as it is in the latest Corolla, Hyundai i30, Kia Rio and Focus to name a few I have tried and rejected. At least there might be an excuse for a raked windscreen for aerodynamic efficiency, but there appears only disadvantage in the way the high, small rear windows and almost fake little 3/4 glass cuts vision to almost nil. No wonder parking sensors and rear view cameras are becoming so popular.
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