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  #21  
Unread 28th November 2014, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by guzzla View Post
Just don't overtake then.
The problem is the guy doing 95 where an overtake is possible/permissible may be doing 65 around bends and up hills.

When I drive roads like the Great Ocean Road I pull over when I reach other cars and look out at the view. Then there's a mad dash to get back in the car before the next piece of traffic passes and enjoy the clear section of road I have created.
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  #22  
Unread 28th November 2014, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Ratbag View Post
VicRoads told me to " ... just drive anyway, as you have already served your period of suspension ... ".
You can just see the chances of successfully arguing THAT in court ...
Somewhere between nil and FA ... .
And you can just envisage that Vic Roads person confirming it in writing too.
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  #23  
Unread 28th November 2014, 08:24 PM
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1 kmh over is pretty ridicuilous, so is the Victorian tolerance of 2/3 kmh. You're right, it means you're spending so much time staring at the speedo you simply cant concentrate properly on the surrounding traffic.

This focus on speeding fines actually make the roads more dangerous!

What really gets my goat is when you have been waiting to overtake a very slow car on a dual laned road with double solid lines, then just as you get to the overtaking lane he suddenly speeds up to 100!
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  #24  
Unread 28th November 2014, 09:52 PM
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Yeah, Peter

Quote:
Originally Posted by subyroo View Post
And you can just envisage that Vic Roads person confirming it in writing too.
Not a chance in Hades, mate.

Just like trying to get an incident number out of some of the people at Telstra ... AND they look positively professional compared with the other Telcos ...

If we were to apply the same level of pedantic expectation to our political masters and their minions (police, public servants, etc ... ) that they all routinely apply to us, they would ALL be in jail.

They ALL seem to have forgotten about the three great doctrines that underlie all of our social and communal relationships:

The Doctrine of the Rule of Law;

The Doctrine of Legitimate Expectation;

The Doctrine of Natural Justice.

None of these things can be legislated as they exist outside the framework laws and of government. They pre-date the existence of such things, and form the actual and philosophical basis of instruments such as the Constitution, courts, governments and the bureaucracy (including the police and their sub-contractors ... ).
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  #25  
Unread 29th November 2014, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NachaLuva View Post
1 kmh over is pretty ridicuilous, so is the Victorian tolerance of 2/3 kmh. You're right, it means you're spending so much time staring at the speedo you simply cant concentrate properly on the surrounding traffic.
I hear this rubbish all the time. It's crap. What's wrong with you that you can't keep a consistent speed and only having to glance at the speedo once every minute or so? The speedo is only one of the many things that you should be checking regularly if you are being an involved, observant driver anyway. And if the limit is 100 what's wrong with travelling at 99 or 98? You don't have to always be sitting on the exact limit. The speed limit is the speed limit. Why pretend that 100 really means 103 so let's all sit on 105 because near enough is good enough?
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  #26  
Unread 29th November 2014, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guzzla View Post
And if the limit is 100 what's wrong with travelling at 99 or 98? You don't have to always be sitting on the exact limit. The speed limit is the speed limit. Why pretend that 100 really means 103 so let's all sit on 105 because near enough is good enough?
If you sit at 98 its all too easy to creep up only 5kmh on a downhill, which at 103kmh will get you a nice big fat fine. Thats not really the issue though as at this speed you'd either be on a country road or freeway/highway so cruise control would be set.

The issue is driving around the burbs at 58kmh, knowing that there is a multitude of cops/cameras waiting to get you the moment you creep up that 5kmh, which as we all know is too easy to do.

The result is we are all being trained to obsess about speed, esp at traffic lights where the majority of the cameras are, right at the very time we should be concentrating the most on whats outside the car, not a guage inside
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  #27  
Unread 29th November 2014, 05:57 PM
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^ I totally agree, NL.

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  #28  
Unread 29th November 2014, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Ratbag View Post
The real downside is perhaps not quite as obvious. It is that we come to see both the government and the police as our enemies, and their blatant disregard for the Doctrine of the Rule of Law, and the abomination of the legislative provisions calls both LAW and laws into disrepute, along with the government and the police. This has serious long-term ramifications for the cohesion and stability of our entire community.
I don't agree with this.

This has got to be one of the most respecting countries towards the rule of law in the world. Governments are kept in check and every citizen has the right to express their opinion towards law enforcement and traffic control measures.

Let me tell you, not a lot of people die on the road here. This is vastly due to what some people here refer to as "revenue raising" activities. You know what? If I could pay an extra $200 a year to a government I don't agree with so no one in my family dies in a traffic accident, guess what? I would pay it gladly!!!

Having had close mates suffer the consequences of speeding drivers on the roads - the ones only doing 5-10% more than the speed limit, I say keep the cameras up and fine everyone doing the wrong thing!

If you don't want to help the government's revenue, you have 2 choices: drive within the limit, or don't drive. And by doing so, you'll keep yourself and everyone around you safe!

Pedro.
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  #29  
Unread 29th November 2014, 08:35 PM
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Gidday Pedro

I agree with everything you have written - except your first sentence ...

It is an inappropriate forum to discuss the many and varied ways that all levels of government - Federal, State and Local - pervert and distort the law to their own ends. It is this that calls the Rule of Law into disrepute.

The fact that state and territory governments completely ignore the instructions of the manufacturers in their use of these devices; the lack of transparency; the failure to provide proper evidence of compliance checks of these devices; the failure to tender disputable evidence in courts; the legislating out of existence of any defence to the alleged offences - these things speak for themselves ... I could go on, and on, and on, but will not.

The same ends could be obtained by honest and honourable means, but governments around this country have chosen not to do this, because it might cost them a few dollars in court when people dispute the fines handing out on the basis of the "evidence" of these devices.

People, myself included, do not tend to dispute these things out of a perverse sense of bloody mindedness. They dispute them because they believe them to be wrong, or unjust.

One has only to look at the final outcomes of the Western Ring Road and the Karen St Nepean Highway debacles to realise that sometimes governments and their servants get things badly wrong, and to realise the dangers of legislating away defences to these charges. The government of the day had to retrospectively refund hundreds of millions of dollars in fines that they had previously demanded payment for, and received, when the courts decided that the "evidence" and compliance of the devices in question was unreliable at best and completely wrong at worst.

It is this behaviour on the part of governments to which I so strongly object, not the setting and enforcement of sensible laws in an honest and responsible manner.
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  #30  
Unread 30th November 2014, 06:04 AM
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Ratbag, you may need to do a tour of Libya, or Afghanistan, Venezuela, or my native Brazil to see what an inappropriate government looks like and how much the Australian government (Labor or Liberal) is pretty good with the rule of law. (I migrated for a reason...)

On the other hand, it's people like you that keep pushing the system to improve and be more just and fair. So keep up the good work!

Back to the cameras and tolerance around them, I just returned from a leisurely bike ride around Melbourne and witnessed some pretty average driving. There was one guy that simply drove past me and went straight through a red light! On St Kilda Road! And the best part? The "revenue raising" cameras grabbed a nice shot of the car! I couldn't help but smile.

Now, all jokes aside, a kid could've been crossing the road at the time! There were kids everywhere today!! I hope the fine this guy gets will be the one that throughs him over the points limit and his license is suspended for a while, because he does not belong on the road!

I'm a big supporter of cameras, radars, and the like. Sure, sometimes they are used to get the distracted driver (not that any of us drive in a distracted manner). But how can you be against something that saves lives?!? Can the system and the devices be improved? SURE! And they should! But until then, let the boys in blue do their job!

Pedro.
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