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  #11  
Old 27th November 2014, 08:51 PM
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Without being able to tender said evidence RB, did you beat the charge?

Innocent unless PROVEN guilty my hat
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  #12  
Old 27th November 2014, 09:18 PM
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The whole subject is steeped in political correctness and hiding the blatant grab for yet more revenue from the already over-taxed motoring public. Mostly it's plain BS, IMNSHO.

Take this quote from the SA government, here:

http://www.dpti.sa.gov.au/towardszer..._safety_camera

where they say:

"Actual speed is the speed of the vehicle at a single point in time. Fixed speed cameras such as mid-block safety cameras or safety cameras at traffic signals detect a vehicle’s actual speed as the vehicle passes the part of the camera system that detects speed."

This paragraph (one of thousands ... ) would be much clearer if the words in bold (political correct speak ... ) had the word "speed" substituted for them.

i.e.

"Actual speed is the speed of the vehicle at a single point in time. Fixed speed cameras such as mid-block speed cameras or speed cameras at traffic signals detect a vehicle’s actual speed as the vehicle passes the part of the camera system that detects speed."

When mandatory 40 kmh speed limits around schools were introduced here in Victoria, the number of children killed or injured in them actually increased the following year. Not that this is statistically significant, but it does highlight that these things are largely politically correct BS.

When Premier Joan Kirner cut the speed limit on the West Gate bridge from 100 kmh to 80 kmh, it achieved two things:
a) it reduced traffic to a crawl for around 4 hours every day; and
b) it decreased the death rate "by 100%" [sic].

While the figure is mathematically wrong, it is also highly misleading. There had been 2 deaths on the West Gate bridge the previous year, and this had fallen to one in the next reporting year. Again, not statistically significant. I suppose one should not expect an ex-teacher to be able to work out simple percentages, but ...

I am in no way whatsoever minimising the human cost and suffering associated with even one death; however, I agree with those who have said that it is a blatant money grab, disguised as " ... doing something about the road toll ... ".

IMO, about the only things that have impacted on the road toll have been better designed and built cars, with better rollover angle, better occupant protection; the compulsory fitting and wearing of seat belts (Victoria was the last State to adopt this latter, IIRC); better road signage for corners in particular; and precious little else ...

I am also not suggesting that blatant breaching of the road laws should be encouraged or countenanced either. However, there is a huge gap between doing 160 kmh in a 60 kmh zone and doing 64 kmh (momentarily) in a 60 kmh zone.

Ditto with red lights. 0.5 second tolerance on turn arrows off an 80 kmh road is nothing short of ridiculous.

BTW, breaching the Road Rules in Victoria IS a criminal offence. The legal concept of a misdemeanour was legislated out of existence about 8-15 years ago, IIRC.

Many camera detected alleged offences have also had all right to any defence legislated out of existence ...
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  #13  
Old 27th November 2014, 09:27 PM
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Gidday ST

Quote:
Originally Posted by stilson View Post
Without being able to tender said evidence RB, did you beat the charge?
No. AND the policeman lied his head off; committed Statutory perjury by changing the court appearance date on the summons served on me to be different from the date on the copy filed with the court ...

So it goes on. How can we expect our children to respect either the Rule of Law or the rules of law when the State patently ignores these things, both the principle and the legislative instruments?

Quote:
Innocent unless PROVEN guilty my hat
Quite. Guilty unless and until proven by the defendant beyond any reasonable doubt that no offence has been committed.

Don't even start me on how this was dealt with by VicRoads. Suffice it to say that they cancelled/suspended my licence while the matter was still before the court; notified me of their action two days before the expiration of the period of suspension.

Then I had it 'properly' suspended again by the court.
VicRoads told me to " ... just drive anyway, as you have already served your period of suspension ... ".
You can just see the chances of successfully arguing THAT in court ...
Somewhere between nil and FA ... .
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  #14  
Old 27th November 2014, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwifoz View Post
I bet this puts the price of radar detectors through the roof. I'm seriously tempted to get one.

Using front mount radar detector 's just sends a message to traffic cops that you are most likely to break speed related road rules.

Save your money, do the speed limit!! no matter how ridiculous it is.
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  #15  
Old 27th November 2014, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catchya View Post

do the speed limit!! no matter how ridiculous it is.
Yeah, if only we knew what our speedos were telling us ...

IIRC, a speedo in a car has to be within ±5% by (some) law or regulation.

An electronic speedo cannot be calibrated, AFAIK.

The Road Rules require that we abide by a +3 kmh tolerance, AT ALL SPEEDS. That's an absolute tolerance for a value that changes by a percentage value ...

Sense does not appear as a term in any of these equations ... !

IMFAO, an allowance similar to that in the (still) UK would be appropriate: i.e. a +5% allowance to compensate for potential speedometer error, plus a fixed margin for driver error of (say) 5 kmh at all speeds.

This would allow for 63 + 5 = 68 kmh in a 60 zone, and 105 + 5 = 110 kmh in a 100 kmh zone.

It is my belief that almost all motorists would perceive this as a fair rule; balancing safety with a modicum of common sense - the latter being a commodity that's apparently left at the door by governments ...

According to the TAC advertising here (the infamous "wipe off 5" campaign), going 5 kmh faster means that it takes you around 10-20 m further to stop from 65 kmh than it does from 60 kmh (or 55 kmh vs 60 kmh - their advertisement is about as clear as it is meaningful!!).
Any way you slice it, this is arrant nonsense, and does absolutely nothing for the credibility of either the TAC, or their campaign, or the government, or the police force.

The real downside is perhaps not quite as obvious. It is that we come to see both the government and the police as our enemies, and their blatant disregard for the Doctrine of the Rule of Law, and the abomination of the legislative provisions calls both LAW and laws into disrepute, along with the government and the police. This has serious long-term ramifications for the cohesion and stability of our entire community.
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  #16  
Old 27th November 2014, 11:21 PM
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I have my own views on speed limits.
Sure it is far more important to be aware of what is happening around you using both eyes rather than constantly flicking, with attendant focus changes, from your speedo to the distance.
I prefer to drive safely, I don`t ignore speed limits and try and stay within them even though in many cases they are stupid and just revenue raisers.
That stupid slogan used in QLD that "every k over is a killer" takes the cake. It can be but not if you know what you are doing and don`t drive like an idiot.
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  #17  
Old 28th November 2014, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavAmb View Post
How are you supposed to overtake a car doing say 95ks? The amount of time you would spend on the wrong side of the road in such an action is ridiculous
I work in Moorabbin, My cruise sits at around 95km/h in a 100 zone judged by my gps and i still tend to be overtaking most people on the fwy. The calder is the least of my worries as it doesn't have cameras in my commute, it's the ringroad/westgate/kingsway/nepean hwy that's my problem.

As for the overtaking, why overtake someone doing 95km/h in a 100? Taking traffic into consideration it doesn't get me anywhere any faster. But it does take abit of time to overtake someone who's doing say 80-90 in a 100, but if it is safe to overtake them to begin with that's not an issue imo, that could also just be the volunteer firefighter in me knowing what a head on car accident looks like.
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  #18  
Old 28th November 2014, 01:48 AM
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In theory and you will be booked if you exceed the speed limit when overtaking.
It is crazy . So what do you do, sit in the wrong lane for an inordinate length of time and then get booked for driving on the wrong side of the road.
The whole way we look at road rules and road safety needs a thorough overhaul with the emphasis on safe driving and not revenue raising.
Can`t see it happening though.
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  #19  
Old 28th November 2014, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ateday View Post
The whole way we look at road rules and road safety needs a thorough overhaul with the emphasis on safe driving
Probably agree with you there.
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  #20  
Old 28th November 2014, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavAmb View Post
How are you supposed to overtake a car doing say 95ks? The amount of time you would spend on the wrong side of the road in such an action is ridiculous.
Just don't overtake then. And it has always been against the law to exceed the speed limit when overtaking.

In QLD the once very generous tolerance has been progressively tightened over the last 2 years but the authorities won't reveal what that tolerance is.

And if low speed limits are challenged the authorities can always fall back on the latest statistics that show annual road fatalities in QLD have fallen from a high of almost 700 in 1973 to an expected low (since records have been kept and in spite of a doubling in population) of less than 240 this year. How can anyone really measure the influence of better roads and safer cars in reaching that figure?
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Last edited by guzzla; 28th November 2014 at 10:11 AM.
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